Meeting to be held at: First Baptist Church of Malabar

1665 Malabar Road, Malabar, FL 32950

CALL TO ORDER

OPENING MEETING AND IDENTIFY PARTIES

Patrick Reilly, Mayor of Town of Malabar, introduced himself.

Marisa Acquaviva, town council, district 5, introduced herself.

Brian Vail, town council, district 2, introduced himself.

Jim Clevenger, town council, district 3, introduced himself.

David Scardino, town council, district 4, introduced himself.

Rita Pritchett mentioned the Board knows Mr. Matt Stinnett from previously.

Carl Bohne, town attorney, introduced himself; and he advised they are still waiting on one

council member.

Frank Abbate, County Manager, introduced himself.

Commissioner Feltner, district 4, introduced himself.

Chair Pritchett, district 1, introduced herself.

Mike Knight, Environmentally Endangered Lands (EELS) Program, introduced himself.

Commissioner Goodson, district 2, introduced himself.

Commissioner Tobia, district 3, introduced himself.

Morris Richardson, County Attorney, introduced himself.

Chair Pritchett thanked the town council and the rest of the attendees for allowing the Board to

come to their beautiful city. She stated there are numerous cards, therefore, she is going to

give two minutes per speaker to get through the cards; she reiterated her appreciation to the

town for having this meeting; and she thanked Commissioner Tobia for hosting the meeting in

his district.

PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

Commissioner Feltner led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.

MEETING DESCRIPTION AND OVERVIEW OF PROCEDURE

Morris Richardson, County Attorney, stated the County is there pursuant to Florida Statutes,

Chapter 164, the Governmental Conflict Resolution Act; the Town of Malabar initiated the

conflict resolution procedures by passing a resolution outlining its desire to work within Chapter

164, last year; on April 10, 2023 staff for the County and the Town of Malabar participated in a

Conflict Assessment Meeting; it was open to the public in the Malabar townhall; because no

resolution was reached at the conflict assessment meeting with staff, they are now at the next

step in the statutory conflict resolution process known as the joint public meeting; and that is

what is happening today. He went on to say as everyone knows County Commissioner Chair

Pritchett will chair this meeting; Mayor Reilly was gracious in allowing for that; the Chair will call

on public speakers for comment; because of the number of attendees, there will be two

minutes for speakers; he asked that people try not to repeat themselves; if there is someone

that represents a group, not everyone has to stand to say the same thing; the Chair will

maintain order; and at the conclusion of public comment, which followed the introduction, both

the Town of Malabar and the County have brief PowerPoint presentations setting forth the

issues that were discussed at the conflict assessment phase. He stated the Town council and

the County Commission are both tasked with considering the issues and seeking an agreement

and scheduling additional meetings for each respective governing board, or their staff

designees, to continue to seek resolution of the conflict; if no agreement can be reached at this

public meeting, then both parties are required to participate in mediation and the cost of

mediation is equally born between the parties; they must decide on a mediator within 14 days

of this meeting if no agreement is reached today; once the mediator is scheduled, mediators

are selected, and mediation takes place within 14 days; if the conflict is resolved today, the

County and the Town of Malabar must adopt or pass an ordinance, resolution, or interlocal

agreement that reflects the terms or conditions of the resolution conflict at separate meetings;

and if there is a failure to resolve the conflict through the procedures described after this

meeting and after mediation, then the parties may avail themselves of any otherwise legal

remedy, and in this case that would mean the County would proceed with the current abated

litigation. He turned the meeting back over to the Chair.

PUBLIC COMMENTS

3 Minutes per speaker, each speaker shall have one opportunity to speak,

speakers must fill out a speaker card.

Chair Pritchett stated she is going to start with public comment; she asked that the speakers

come up when called and state their name and address; she will let the speaker know when

time is up; she will not be able to add time to it because there are so many people; she asked

that people not think she is being rude when she advises them that time is up; she would like to

make sure that no one speaks out from the audience because of the difficulty in hearing; and

she noted no cheers and no boos.

Grant Ball stated he wanted to bring up something he has not heard too much about and that is

Malabar has 20 percent of its land in EELs property and he thinks that whatever the County

wants to do with EELs, if it cuts out the use of it for the enjoyment of the residents of Malabar,

then what it should be doing is giving the Town of Malabar some money to make up for the fact

that the residents have lost 20 percent of the revenue, especially in the EELs property down

where Harris is, because that is where the biggest impact would have been as it is an industrial

complex; they are paying basically 20 percent more in taxes to give this land to EELs; and he

thinks that should be borne by the State, the County, and everybody else that is affected with

this property.

Jason Stroble stated he has a long list of clubs that he has been a part of in his life and he has

yet to meet anyone who disagrees with research being done for Scrub Jays; everyone loves

the Scrub Jays; the fact that people are being pitched as they just want to save the trails is

outrageous; he wants to make sure they are talking about the Scrub Jays in South Brevard

only; there are other populations in Brevard that will be fine and continued to be managed;

according to BPA, there could be a lot of property cleared and it would not save the Scrub Jays;

what they really need is a 70 percent strong habitat; in truth, Brevard County does not have

many nature spaces, everyone is ripping out every piece of woods possible; and they all have

their reasons including EELs. He continued by saying EELs actually restored the property close

to his place; the area is cleared of almost all trees and is now virtually an open field; even with

supplementation, this population of Scrub Jays will go extinct and they will be left with an open

field without the animal that they cleared the property for; EELs is looking to remove

10,000-20,000 trees from the property; and this is a high-tech community that loves the

outdoors. He stated when he first moved there he worked for Harris and roughly 80 percent of

the engineers he worked closely for have moved from this County to other places that provide

more outdoor space; the proposed plan that they have does not adhere to what he knows

about valuable Scrub Jay habitat, for instance, buffer zones; people need to look at the bigger

picture and the only thing to consider is not just Scrub Jays in South Brevard County, what they

really want is a balanced plan; and he would encourage all to look at the bigger picture to

consider future generations and future residents, to find a balanced plan that save the Scrub

Jays of South Brevard, as well as nature space.

William Fisk stated he is the president-elect of the Space Coast Audubon; they are asking both

parties to look at the science; as the gentleman said previously, this is only dealing with one

property, but there are a whole lot of people; he believes they all need to look out for the Scrub

Jays; it is an endangered species; the people need to work for them; sadly, if they do not cut

some of the trees, the Red Shouldered Hawks seem to think that Scrub Jays are a delicacy;

and their perches need to be cut down so they are not predating on the Scrub Jays. He noted

they are asking that everyone look at the science, and come to a compromise; maybe come up

with some more recreation areas; but people need to think about the Scrub Jays.

Heather Elko stated she is there to support the scientific management of the Malabar Scrub

Jay Sanctuary and the Florida Scrub Jays that are part of this unique ecosystem; she is

confused as to why a city that is fortunate enough to have conservation land in their midst

would want to develop that property; she uses the word develop because property used for

human recreation is just that, development; everyone knows that the first victims of

development are the species of that ecosystem, including in this case the endangered Scrub

Jays; those who want to alter the Malabar Scrub Maintenance Plan have themselves enjoyed

the life of these birds; people will never forget the magical moment when a Scrub Jay landed

on the ground nearby, cocked an eye, and proceeded to dig up an acorn that it had stashed for

later times; and people would be thrilled to see Scrub Jay parents bringing out the kids for the

first time to learn how to forage. She added if people have seen these youngsters comporting

among the branches of low scrub plants, that is their necessary habitat and their survival; and

her point is to be careful of what one wishes for because people may get it and in the process

lose what they love. She went on to say she knows the cyclists and herself share the

appreciation of the Scrub Jay environment because she has often met them on the trails of

Wickham Park; cyclists of the scrub, choose their time to be out and it is rarely in the heat of

the day; they do not demand that the scrub be something it is not; imagine if the cyclists went

to the mountains and complained it was too hilly; she asked what if they went cycling in the

Everglades and demanded something be done because it was too damp; and she stated the

scrub is an ecosystem, so to respect it for what it is. She went on to say she voted her taxes to

go to the good of the whole County not just this one municipality; there is innovative wisdom

that everyone has heard, the story of the camel in the tent; and those who argue for control of

Malabar Scrub sanctuary and oppose the Management Plan that was voted for, already have

access to enjoy this endangered land.

Jim Burney stated he is speaking as a resident of Rockledge and a supporter of County land

acquisition management; he expressed his appreciation to all of the Malabar residents for the

past EELs acquisitions and current voter-approved bond referendum; it is obvious to him that

all may differ on certain components of this management plan, certainly to the value and the

County’s natural areas; as a Rockledge resident, he has reviewed and is in support of the EELs

management plan for all the Scrub reserves, including the Malabar Scrub Jay Reserve; given

the scientific study detail in Brevard County Scrub Jay population and their survival outlook his

support includes maximizing critical habitat to further tree density reductions as specified by the

Florida Wildlife Commission (FWC) and the US Fish and Wildlife Service habitat guidelines; he

is opposed to single municipalities interfering with management practices that are well

documented integral steps necessary to aid recovery of endangered and threatened species;

and lastly, both FWC and US Fish and Wildlife have designated this project as protected and

both agencies have direct ties to Malabar Scrub conservation area. He went on to say FWC,

through financial support and legally binding management agreements, US Fish and Wildlife

legally binding Scrub Jay habitat mitigation commitments over portions of the property; both

agencies have been watching from the sidelines today, however, people should be aware that

further interference with the Scrub Jay Management guidelines, including tree reduction zones

will certainly eventually draw a strict and one-sided response in support of the Scrub Jay

management; and right now, these guys are waiting, but there are not going to quietly wait

forever. He thanked everyone in support of the recently posted bond referendum; and he

thanked the Commission.

Richard Owen stated he wants to start at the beginning; when EELs was initiated it was

initiated because a group of citizens got together that did not want all of Brevard County to turn

into a strip mall or a housing area; they wanted to set aside some land to remain natural and

everyone can have the benefits of having a balanced community; the initial idea was EELs

would manage the lands and keep it in a way that is fairly natural for the environment; now

coming to Malabar, what does EELs want to do with the land, they want to come in and clear

cut it all, burn it, and then they think this is going to give the Scrub Jays a nice habitat; and this

happened over in Jordan Scrub. He mentioned a friend that works for Harris happened to look

out of his window one day and thought wow, Jordan Scrub is now a parking lot because after

they shredded it and burned it all down that is what it looked like, all dark like a parking lot; a

couple of years later he went there because he was curious to see what was going on and what

he saw was a sawgrass desert with sawgrass everywhere; and he wondered how the Scrub

Jays were going to deal with that.

Carl Bohne announced that Mary Hofmeister, district 5 town council member had arrived.

Vince Lamb stated the combination of Scrub areas in and around Malabar are considered the

largest area in Brevard County for Scrub Jays excluding portions of the Kennedy Space Center

(KSC); these properties have resident Scrub Jay populations and collectively provide Scrub

landscape with a high probability of sustaining South Brevard’s population of Scrub Jays for the

long term; prior to Scrub Jays previously occupied bay areas of Brevard County where they can

no longer be found, this includes an EELs program sanctuary right across the Lagoon; Coconut

Point Sanctuary in South Breaches had a resident population for many years until about 10

years ago; and the loss of the adjacent Scrub Jay habitat to development left the sanctuary too

small for the long term survival of the resident Scrub Jays. He continued by saying he strongly

supports the management of the Malabar Scrub Sanctuary to give priority to Florida Scrub Jays

and to allow passive recreation activities along the perimeter; and by taking these steps, it will

ensure that this unique and important species continues to strive in the wild.

Mark Gunter stated luckily he moved there a year and one half ago and got to see the other

species and wildlife in the sanctuary; he thinks everyone ought to be able to come to some

compromise on it and how many trees; if one looks at Jordan, rides Jordan, or hikes Jordan

Sanctuary, he has done it most of his life, it is a catastrophe, there is no wildlife; it is awful; and

what he is afraid of, he has turkeys that come in and out of his back yard, snakes, bobcats,

even a panther back there, and what he is afraid of is it is going to run all of that wildlife out of

there and the people are not going to be able to enjoy it. He continued by saying everybody

wants to enjoy the Scrub Jays, everybody; his wife encountered two of them the other day; they

are friendly and beautiful; all the other species should not be sacrificed, there has got to be a

compromise; it cannot be 10,000 trees and mow everything down; maybe 1,000 trees; and that

is all he has to say.

Denise Simpson stated she is a longtime Scrub Jay volunteer; the property was acquired as

conservation land; the proposed restoration was clearly stated in the management plan that

was approved and open public comment at the time it was approved; of course, Scrub Jays are

in decline; the area is critical habitat, the mountain bikers can go somewhere else, the Scrub

Jays do not have that luxury; and no one is saying that the mountain bikers cannot be out in the

Malabar Scrub. She mentioned that she spends hundreds of hours during the summer in

properly maintained Scrub habitat and there is no reason people cannot go out there on bikes,

but it needs to be conserved for the Scrub Jays that do not have an option to go someplace

else.

Laurilee Thompson stated she knows that the loss of trees is hard to swallow, but at KSC, they

have been managing for years for Scrub Jays and there is an incredible amount of wildlife in

the areas that they have managed, burned, and cleared trees; she is not sure what happened

in Jordan Sanctuary, but this land was purchased as conservation and she hopes they can all

reach a compromise; she thinks the compromise that the selection and management

committee has suggested is reasonable in that it would leave some of the oak hammock intact;

and she hopes they can reach a compromise today. She mentioned Brevard County is going to

have one million residents eventually; these habitats are critical to keep our diversity here; it is

one of the most diverse areas in the entire State; and it needs to stay balanced.

Lew Kontnik stated the property was acquired by a process and a vote by the County

population; he respects a variety of uses but he believes people have to live with the process

that was adopted and voted for; he supports accommodation within the defined uses and he

supports compromise; however, he does not support unilateral action in this case.

Deborah Langman–Murich stated she is speaking as a citizen today; she lives in the Suntree

area part of Melbourne; she has been an active member of leadership positions Audubon and

in the Sierra Club; she has taken master naturalist classes; she is not an expert but from all the

field trips she has taken and activities, she has learned over the years that Scrub Jays are

unique to Florida; one thing she found interesting, not being from Florida, was the variety of

habitats that could not be found anywhere else; the Scrub Jays are even being considered to

be the State bird because they are only found here in Florida; and the Scrub Jays need all the

space they can get. She mentioned from the classes she took the land that is the most

developable is the Scrub Jay land which is high and dry and used to be the highland when the

seas covered Florida, so naturally everyone wants to build there; there is very little Scrub Jay

land left so they really have to struggle to survive; each time they lose a high and dry property

that should be Scrub it loses more habitat for Scrub Jays; part of that is burning, there are lots

of parts of the country where habitat needs to burned to be maintained and be kept low of taller

plants; and Scrub is one of those habitats. She stated predators like hawks or owls will eat

small birds and small animals; everywhere else in the County she wished there were more

trees, but in Scrub territory there needs to be less trees; her wish is to go with the original idea

from EELs; there are other parks for recreation; but EELs is for helping to maintain the unique

Florida habitat.

PUBLIC COMMENTS

3 Minutes per speaker, each speaker shall have one opportunity to speak, speakers

must fill out a speaker card.

Michael Myjak stated he has been involved in helping support EELs since the 1990s; he was

one of the original pact that started EELs when they pushed the idea of science and

management behind their decision making; he thinks that is what should rule the day; the

purpose of this land was to save the Scrub Jay; it is nice that there is recreational opportunities

along with that, but it is the Scrub Jay that is the purpose of this property; if people cannot be

respectful for those that are endemic and endangered, then he is not sure what is happening

here; he reiterated the purpose of the land is to save the Scrub Jays; and he believes in the

science behind it.

Stuart Nicholson stated this is unique land with the hammock and all the trees and dozens of

his friends and thousands who walk and bicycle this all the time; while other people say they

can go everywhere else, that is not the case; these are the second best mountain bike trails in

the State, the best are in Ocala; many people go out there and ride them for that purpose; the

County already has a shortage of parks at this time; and this is unique property. He continued

by saying he is sure he voted for the EELs property, however, he really does not remember that

proposition saying it is going to be managed and that they would cut down 10 to 20 thousand

trees, it was not in there or he would have voted against that; as the last speaker pointed out

there is a lot of this County that does not have those; immediately south of here, EELs owns

huge amounts of property, maybe there is a way to move the Scrub Jays there; and all the

taxpayers own this property and he was very unhappy to see the County close it up, shut off

the management contract, spend more taxpayer money putting up gates, and cutting the public

off for the last year. He advised they figure out how to work together if they need property

management, legal management, or whatever.

Bob Wilbur stated he has been a resident of Malabar since 76, and been here since 66; he

watched all this Turkey Creek area develop; he was on planning and zoning when they came

into town; he fought for them saying this was an amenity that would be good for the town; and

he still believes that. He went on by saying what they have is a location situation with Turkey

Creek Sanctuary south, what he calls Malabar Scrub, because they are a home basin of Turkey

Creek and all its tributaries are formally habitats of all birds; Turkey Creek Sanctuary, just this

last year, had recorded over 90 different species of birds since January; there has been talk of

the panthers, otters, and everything; when people start removing, it is opening it for exotics, like

pepper trees; where one sees pepper trees, the land has been disturbed; and he thinks that

leaving the Turkey Creek Sanctuary area intact is bound to preserve the oak trees.

Keith Winston stated the Brevard Zoo has been working with Scrub Jays for a long time; they

pioneered the methodology of trans-locating them, removing them from one site to another

because they are such poor fliers, they cannot do that on their own; when they are doomed, his

group is who comes in and moves them; he wanted to make two points today; the first is the

science behind them, population management, was one his group helped bring in; and it is the

same people who do this around the world for tigers, pandas, and penguins, and they are the

best at what they do. He went on to say the second is the uniqueness; he was actually at

Turkey Creek on Saturday and he saw a short-tailed hawk; that is a specialist hawk that lives in

deep forest cover; people will never see that over at Scrub; yesterday he was over at one of the

EELs properties, a very healthy EELs property and he saw Scrub Jays; Scrub Jays will never

be seen in Turkey Creek; and the analogy that he likes to use is if this County can send

missions to space to get people to the moon and along the way they take some cargo, that is

great, but if the time they are putting actual people for the first time there, they would not put in

extra cargo and be happy with 20 percent more risk of those people not making it to the moon,

there is no compromise for that. He stated there is no compromise with Scrub Jays; they are

specialist and they live in what does look like a Scrub desert; that is what they need; if it is

tipped at all and the trees are put in, Coopers Hawks, Yellow Rat Snakes, and everything starts

feeding on them; they are super specialized and one might not love the look of that habitat,

although well managed, Cruickshank Sanctuary has its own set of animals; and one will not see

turkey around there, they are like the short-tailed hawks they do not want to be in the Scrub. He

mentioned there is a mosaic of habitat in Brevard County and their job is to manage all of it;

and to use the best science to do it.

Sandra Sullivan stated in January of 2022, she spoke in support of these protections for the

Scrub Jays and the removal of the trees; she has a reversal on that position for a few things

that have occurred; first she wants to thank the County and the City of Malabar for the beautiful

trail system and all the Scrub land that has been set aside; February of last year she was

driving by Cruikshank Sanctuary which is a beautiful place to go to for the Scrub Jay and

noticed all the tall trees, so why is Malabar being selected; and she asked why all of the Scrub

Jay habitats are not being maintained. She went on to say in August 2022 at a County

Commissioner meeting, the same Commissioner brought up a proposal to sell off half of the

EELs lands, particularly the EELs lands held by the State; for that part of it, it has not been

discussed at all, of what may be an agenda, and she wants everyone aware of; her

recommendation is that the City and the County agree with what they agree on right now, which

is 90 percent of what was on the table; two seasons of Scrub Jay nesting has been lost, last

year and this year; two seasons that the Scrub Jays could have been reproducing on these

lands, because the City and County did not move forward with 90 percent of the plan that

everyone agreed on, and it could always come back with the parts it was in disagreement with;

and the obvious solution today is to come together and agree on what they agree on right now.

Maryann Civil stated she was very familiar with the EELs program for many years; she hopes

everyone remembers in the original purchase for this Scrub property was to benefit the existing

Scrub Jay population in that area; second EELs has made several compromises with keeping

some of the tree canopy and have proposed moving some of the trails that will now be open to

a buffer canopy areas; she thinks compromise is well deserved; and she hopes they can all put

their heads together, keep the ego out, and come to a resolution because obviously the citizens

want to use that property. She added to remember that recreation is a secondary value for this

property. She went on to say she can see people are not happy that the original purpose was

for the Scrub Jay families; if this is allowed, like several people have mentioned about

Cruickshank that Scrub Jay families are coming back because of the land management that

has been done at that particular location; if people allow the management to work, which is

scientific and has been in place for a long time, then she thinks people will reap those benefits;

and then everyone can get back to using the property as it was intended.

Bill DeBusk stated he is the chairperson for the local Sierra Club; the Scrub Jay is only found in

Florida; one can travel to Alaska, Illinois, or California and see Bald Eagles, but the Florida

Scrub Jay is only found in Florida; the Scrub Jay population is declining; currently it is on a

schedule of threatened species list and as the population continues to decline it will become

endangered, and potentially extinct; the Scrub Jay habitat needs to be protected; the latest

population studies show that they will become extinct in Brevard County in 40-70 years if this

habitat is not maintained; and he thinks the Town of Malabar and the County need to come to a

compromise. He mentioned the Florida Scrub Jay is the primary premise for this land; the

proposed restoration of Malabar Scrub will likely allow populations to thrive and increase at

least 18 families, based on long-term studies and models that have undergone long extensive

scientific periods; the habitat restoration will not interfere with public access, recreation; lack of

restoration will certainly result in extinction of Florida Scrub Jays in an area that was

established primarily for the purpose to be maintained to ensure the Scrub Jays do not vanish;

therefore, he is asking this be resolved in a manner that ensures proper maintenance of the

Malabar Scrub.

Mark Britt stated his property backs up to the Sanctuary; he would like to preface what he is

about to say out of respect to the members of the County Commission and all those involved in

this; they did not get there without all the hard work and dedication; at the same time, he wants

to thank all the members of the Town; most of them are volunteers and they are there missing

work; and he attended the April 10, meeting and he left scratching his head thinking why is the

proposal submitted by the Town not being even considered in the least little bit. He continued

by saying this proposal was put together by engineers and volunteers for the Town, the Trails

and Greenway Committee, and they put in many hours researching this; basically, all they are

talking about is a little slice of paradise for the many people who use the Sanctuary; it is a very

reasonable request or compromise; no one should be there today, this should be over; there

are way too many other things to think about in life, mass shootings, too many problems, banks

going under, and inflation; and he asked that the County and the Town of Malabar just get this

done. He added for them to look at the proposal; and he advised it is a very small request.

Michelle Schwind stated she is speaking for herself, but she is also speaking for her mother

because she cannot be there; they love the trees and do not want too many of them to go; it

was locked up, and they were confused; she reiterated she loves the trees and hopes not too

many have to be cut down; and that is their stance.

Joy Peters stated she has lived in Malabar for over 30 years; she is representing herself and

her family and friends that could not attend because not everyone could get off work at this

hour; she thought that the cutting off of the property to punish the citizens for this little tiff was a

little heavy-handed and using the Sheriff to arrest people; she understands the Board of County

Commissioners do what they do; the town is asking for three percent of the property to make it

natural for the citizens; they are not anti-Scrub Jay, they just want a place they can go and

enjoy the beauty; she is glad Commissioner Pritchett thought the Town was lovely, the

residents would like to keep it lovely; and they are trying to keep these natural areas not only

for the Scrub Jays to thrive, but also for humans to go out and have recreation, shade, and

beauty. She continued by saying a week ago Sunday, she was literally on the Appalachian

Trail; it is just beautiful; it just made her sad that they do not have anything even comparable

here; she knows they are never going to match the beauty of the mountain trail, but there is

something beautiful that the people can all go and enjoy, and she does not want to see it

entirely destroyed; people need to come to a compromise to help the Scrub Jays but also have

places for humans to go and enjoy the beauty of nature here; she would like to support the

Town of Malabar; and she would like to see the compromise happen and end this little tiff that

is going in because like someone else pointed out, it is not helping the Scrub Jays, and it is not

helping the humans. She added this is a lovely place, and asked that they not destroy it and not

clear cut all the trees because she would like some place for the people to go to.

Catherine Vecchio stated listening to everybody her thoughts have been changing a lot; she

personally would like to see the park opened back up; the park is for everyone to enjoy; as a

student in the Florida Naturalist program she sees a lot of benefit in that park, naturally; what

this also tells her is that there is a lack of space and there needs to be space found; as a

volunteer, she spends a lot of time in a lot of different areas just like these mountain bikers did,

they maintained that trail; what the real big message here is, is that the citizens of the County

want more open space for active or passive; Florida’s native species are disappearing; she

may advocate for other species in the County but because of conditions that she cannot

control, that species does not thrive; this EELs property was set aside for the Scrub Jay;

naturally there would be fire; and naturally there is no fire happening. She continued by saying

the trees got to where they are because what happens naturally in Florida could not happen;

she sees the beauty of it every time she is on her property and she loves it; she understands

the City’s perspective but she also understands the County. She went on to say she thinks

there is a bigger problem because the more that is developed, the more green space that is

lost; and she would hope the Board would consider opening that park today, and let the

residents use it.

Kevin Schwind stated he has been hiking and biking these trails for years; it was one of the

ways he met his wife; he is for anything that is keeping that as natural as possible; he

understands there is a need to do what people can to support the Scrub Jays, but at the same

time he has never seen a Scrub Jay walking around with a chainsaw or backhoe; there has got

to be a way for them to keep their areas clear, but the people do not need to go through and

cut the entire place down; and there also needs to be a compromise here. He went on to say

he really does not understand why the citizens are being punished because the County and the

Town are bickering about what is going on with it; that serves no purpose at all; furthermore the

people that voted in that EELs stuff, he is sure the majority of the people did not think the

County would cut down a bunch of the trees when they were voting to preserve that land; they

were voting to preserve that land the way they see it now, not with a bunch of bulldozers

running over Gopher Tortoises, Bobcats, and all sorts of stuff that also live out there. He asked

that the Town and the County do the right thing, compromise, and figure this out because he is

definitely voting in the next election.

Rhonda Mayo stated she supports the thinning of the trees at the Malabar Scrub Sanctuary;

one of the unique things about Florida is its many different habitats, from wetlands, to oak

hammocks, to Scrubs; each of these habitats have its own unique beauty, set of plants, and

wildlife; one of the most endangered of those habitats is the Scrub Jay; in Brevard County

alone, the natural Scrub community was estimated to have been diminished by 69 percent, that

was as of 1991; and the Scrub Jay habitat is just as important, perhaps even more so, than the

other forested elements in Florida; the sandy soils in Scrub play an important part in the

stormwater runoff, help ground water recharge and maintain water quality in the Lagoon; and

Scrub sanctuaries reduce a chance of uncontrolled fire. She added while she appreciates the

desire to check trees in general, it should be in context of a habitat that would have naturally

occurred there, without intervention or neglect. She stated she wants to emphasize the voters

approved taxing themselves to protect environmentally endangered lands, not necessarily

recreational lands; passive recreation of the lands would be considered if done without harming

the habitat to be protected; and Malabar Scrub Sanctuary was purchased to protect Scrub Jays

and preserve habitat. She mentioned the shaded areas are beautiful, but the people need to

embrace all kinds of nature, beauty, including Scrub; and if there is a way to return the area to

its natural state and create some shaded areas for hikers and cyclists that would be great.

Lyndsay Mayer stated she is from the Florida Wildlife Hospital; people have spoken on behalf

of the Florida Scrub Jays, and she would like to speak on behalf of the rest of the wildlife; she

works with the wildlife in the area all day, all the time; it is her job and she loves it; the habitat is

becoming unsuitable for many of Florida’s wildlife, including Gopher Tortoises; the one she is

going to focus on is the keystone species; keystone species is important because of the other

species in that environment rely on them; they have 300 animals that rely on them to dig

burrows to give shelter from fire, hail storms, and pull species out of the sun; and right now

when one goes along the roadside, it is full of Gopher Tortoises at the road. She continued by

saying she cannot say how many Gopher Tortoises she sees die because they get hit by cars;

this is the open space, the dry, sunny areas that they need; when it gets shady it increases the

parasite loads in Gopher Tortoises because they need that open sunshine in their habitat; she

also lives right on the Scrub sanctuary; she used to have Scrub Jays in her yard, and now she

does not; she keeps thinking if this would have happened sooner, and they did not have this

delay, she might still have Scrub Jays in her yard; and she would like to see that habitat

returned. She commented she really looks forward to being able to bike and hike there again.

Craig Smith stated he was not going to speak today because he does not feel that anything he

has to say is going to make a difference or be heard, but there was a couple things that he

heard that was kind of interesting to him; it is funny what people latch on to; he is going to read

a quote that has been circulating at a lot of places for a long time, and a lot of people in the

room have probably received the tweet of the Facebook post; and he read, “The issue here is

off-road bikers want the trees preserved throughout the property to shade the trails”; he stated

that has been around for a long time; and he mentioned they are not there because of eight

mountain bikers wanted shade on the trails. He went on to say they are there because the

Town of Malabar gets designated as a trail town by the Florida Department of Environmental

Protection as an active Greenway Trail Committee and they are asking for less than three

percent of the trees to be reserved; he keeps hearing Malabar, Malabar is two very different

pieces of property; one is to the east, square-shaped, and it makes perfect sense to do habitat

restoration there for the Scrub Jays; and in fact, the Town offered to give them the permit to

start working on the east, very early in this process, so they could start working out the details

for the other property; the County refused that and stated they would go to court; and

everybody there should go home and go to the Property Appraiser’s website, look at the land,

use the measuring tools, there is zero optimal habitat; that habitat is too small, it is rectangular,

it is complex in shape, and it is zero potential prime scripted habitat in there; and it makes no

sense to do the same scale of restoration with the small complex piece of property, that one

would do on a large scale piece of property, it is irresponsible.

CONSIDER THE STATEMENT OF ISSUES FROM CONFLICT ASSESSMENT

PHASE

Chair Pritchett mentioned they are now finished with public comment; and she believes it is

time for presentations. She noted she will start with the City of Malabar; then the County has a

presentation; and the County Attorney, Morris Richardson, will lead into it.

Morris Richardson, County Attorney, stated that is correct; the Town of Malabar has a

presentation and he believes it is going to be presented by the Trails and Greenway

Committee; and following that, Mike Knight, Environmentally Endangered Lands (EELs)

Manager, has a brief presentation as well.

Drew Thompson, Chair of Greenways and Trails Committee, stated he is used to trails;

everyday he lives on a trail; what he wants to do is bring everyone up on where the Town is

with this issue; they found out about details of the restoration and it got them thinking; it really

made them think of a few things; obviously the Scrub Jays and the science behind the Scrub

Jays and ultimately the restoration plan and he would like to cover some things; the east and

west are very different; ultimately he wants to talk about, what it amounts to, is a very balanced

reasonable request; a lot of people talked about keeping that the outcome today; and what he

is talking about first is Scrub Jay science. He went on to say, people have heard a lot about it

today; there is potentially a lot of experts in the audience, and a lot of people really enjoy the

Scrub Jays; the Town of Malabar know the Scrub Jays a whole lot more than the Town knew

two years ago; Scrub Jays are endemic, and they are only in Florida; looking at a map they are

really only under the panhandle and not quite across Lake Okeechobee, so the middle of the

State is where one would see Scrub Jays; really what he is talking about is it is a unique animal

that has a breeding pair and it has one to five helpers that are different ages, but they actually

help as a family; and it is a truly amazing bird, and something worth saving. He continued by

saying people have probably sensed from the Town from the various people who have spoken,

the whole idea is there are two forces here, there is not; there are a bunch of people who love

the outdoors and love and appreciate it; the restoration is really about making the science work,

making the plan work; what the Town did was it took a look at the Scrub Sanctuary; the

Malabar Scrub Sanctuary is ultimately two places; there is the east, which is almost a large

square; and for the west is a strange looking thing called Malabar Scrub Sanctuary West. He

explained what is ultimately going on is this is the Greenway known as the Turkey Creek

Greenway; Turkey Creek connects to the Indian River Lagoon; this is a huge Greenway

Estuary, where basically there is a natural site very close to a larger urban population; he

knows the people who have talked in the past about the importance from the urban prospective

and it has been mentioned in the Titusville area in North Brevard; the people there consider

Fox Lake a sanctuary area up there; it is basically their central park; and he puts forth today

that Malabar recognizes this area as their central park. He added this is not just Malabar, this is

South Brevard; there is Melbourne, West Melbourne, Palm Bay, a huge population, there is

Micco to the south and Grant-Valkaria, and Malabar, and these are all areas with a huge

population, roughly 250,000 plus people; they are all there to be productive; and basically what

they have is an urban forest that is under the question of what to do with it to address the Scrub

Jays, they are not against that. He explained while showing a presentation, there is Stillwater

and Country Cove, these are residents, private developments in the middle, up above there is

Cameron Preserve, it is a one hundred acre preserve managed by the Town of Malabar; above

that there is Glenbrooke at Palm Bay an assisted living center; in the upper left-hand corner is

the Turkey Creek area, and some of the property being talked about goes up into Turkey

Creek; some experts stated today that people will not see Scrub Jays in Turkey Creek; and this

plan somewhat tries to address trying to place Scrub Jay habitat on Turkey Creek. He stated

the energies that went forth, a lot of people put in a lot of effort, and there have been a lot of

studies about Kennedy Space Center (KSC) and a lot of studies to the south and what is called

the south and central mainland; in studies of population, there is something called a PVA,

Population Viability Analysis; some of these things are trying to make this work in this site; it is

talking the Malabar Scrub Sanctuary, Jordan Scrub Sanctuary, plus Micco Scrub Sanctuary and

that came to 2,631 acres; and a lot of the science appears to have been developed and a lot of

the plan looks like it was based in this large area that does not exist as a contiguous area. He

noted what he is talking about is the stats were applied, he thinks, without looking at the site;

this is his concern; throughout everything people read about Scrub Jays, it seems everybody

agrees that on the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission’s guidelines for Scrub Jays, he thinks

was last published in 2019, they are basically saying there are two ways to do Scrub Jays;

there are two metrics that are key and one is a 1,000-foot buffer, basically and area with

minimal trees of height so there is a buffer between the forest and where the Scrub Jays start

to live; 1,000 foot is optimal; there are two key words, there is optimal and there is suitable;

suitable is 300 feet; therefore, there are two different things and they do not really specify if one

is at 999 is it suitable and 1,000 is optimal. He continued by saying the plan called for

1,000-foot buffers throughout, for the Malabar Scrub Sanctuary restoration; the other part of

being optimal has to do with the height of the terrain, the shrub height, and also the amount of

open space; nobody is contesting that Scrub Jays need scrub, open habitat to hunt food, and

those types of things; really what is being talked about is the metrics to be applied to the MSS

Restoration Plan were based on bigger stats, a bigger area that more is Jordan Scrub, Micco

Scrub, and ultimately, even the scientist agree the St. Sabastian State Reserve is the big

opportunity in Brevard for where Scrub Jays could regain population viability; Scrub Jays, when

they are in a strong habitat, and they are considered strong when they can reproduce and keep

gaining numbers; if that population peaks out, it is no longer strong, so one would want to deal

with a large area, and fire rotation in order to always have the latest and greatest habitat, one

would want to do fire suppression; but looking at these two areas is looking at two very different

areas. He went on to say he is going to click the slides a couple of times; one will see that this

area here is on the east side so it is Malabar Scrub East; it is about twice as large as west; it is

more suited for Scrub habitat and he has heard some people say that today; it is a continuous

property and he was trying to figure out how to explain what it looks like, but it is really a big

square; most of it 4,000 feet wide and 4,000 feet high; for simplicity sakes, and the amount of

time it is 16 million square feet which equates to, instead of being with its feet in the full gray

area of 392, potentially 393 acres, the square comes down to about 366; it is roughly 26

different than the square everyone is looking at; and the best way to do a Scrub habitat is to

start and do the buffers coming in, and he is not denying that. He stated at the 1,000 foot

current Malabar Scrub restoration plan metric, they are talking about coming in 1,000 feet from

the north, east, south, and west; he pointed out the green area is essentially what would be

considered Scrub territory; that would be optimal because it is 1,000 foot, according to the

FWC requirements; he asked how much of the Scrub at 392, or the 362 converts to 91.8 acres

of optimal; he asked how to fit that many Scrubs Jays into that area, they are not going to hang

out in the gray area because that is where the vulture, predators potentially have time to get to

them; and he mentioned if the green area is what one is after, the 1,000 feet, then it is dealing

with, basically, 92 acres. He advised if one looks at it as being, if they used the 300 feet, kind of

like Cruickshank Sanctuary, kind of like KSC is identified again with a lot of the FWC

documentation, Scrub Jays need a minimum of 300 feet; to go to the other extreme of 300 feet,

coming in 300 feet from the north, east, south, and west, it is 265.4 acres; what he is saying is

this translates to how many Scrub Jays Malabar Scrub can handle depends on how one

interprets the project; it is either at 92 or 266 acres; what that really means is 22 acres per

Scrub Jay family and that is giving a minimum of 22 acres per family, the difference between

interpreting Malabar Scrub east with 1,000-foot buffer versus a 300-foot buffer is 12 families or

four families for the 1,000-foot buffer; they looked at the plan and the 1,000 does not make

sense from what they see; and they try to do their homework. He went on to mention it is

similar to the west; west is a little strange or more difficult, consider a more complex site to look

at; it is basically half the acreage; looking carefully at the habitat, it is less scrubby, more

woodsy, a bunch of creeks running through, there is rights-of-way that are not at the east, and

trees cannot be taken out on the right-of-way, and there is much more forest; if one looks at

this from the diagonal perspective, the other one was kind of square, but look at this diagonal, it

basically, if someone was standing on the Port Malabar Bridge and all the trees come down, as

is in the plan, then someone a mile away could see each other; that is why people are upset;

and that is why this room is full of people. He added the people think it is too extreme right now.

He stated there is some opportunity on the east; looking at the 1,000 foot does not work a

whole lot on the west side; he pointed out the red bars that can be seen throughout are coming

in from the border and it nets three rectangles in the middle; if people were to add up A, B, and

C, what is Malabar Scrub in parcels, and he is talking all the way to Turkey Creek Bridge on

Port Malabar, it is 181.5 acres, adding that up on the Brevard County Property Appraiser’s site

it comes to 68.8 acres and the only amount they would have out of the 181, and that is at 300

not the 1,000; and unfortunately the Town of Malabar’s plan calls for 1,000 feet. He went on to

say if it is 1,000 feet and people really want to do the science they cannot do it; that is how he

sees it; they could do it with 300, but then it ends up with those three rectangles that he

mentioned; for the main idea this is very close; and the reality is there is not that much

opportunity on this side, but is equates to 22 acres per family; and ultimately, it is coming down

to three families. He mentioned when talking about how many acres per how many families,

those are what make sense or is there some room for compromise, or opportunity; and that is

why they are all in attendance today. He reiterated ultimately, they are looking at the Town of

Malabar, the heart of the Greenway, which he pointed out are these two pieces of the Malabar

Scrub, the Cameron Preserve and Turkey Creek at the top; that is all a

natural area that all kinds of people basically said they see all kinds of wildlife; if it is cut down

in these yellowed areas, what will be seen is those animals are not going to be there, they will

be elsewhere; he is not sure where they are going to go; and it is just wrong. He mentioned if

someone put into Google the Malabar Scrub Sanctuary, it basically comes up with the

description of multiple habitats; it says it is a great place for people to observe upland,

wetlands, transitions, different creatures, and different places where one can go; one place with

a bunch of different creatures and different habitats; this is being treated as if it is all one site;

they think that the fifth factor does not make sense; they are basically proposing this; and he

thinks this is what everyone is talking about. He noted people have heard the words

compromise, balance, heard people basically saying this is Brevard County and if it can put

man on the moon, it can surely be worked out; there is a major population counting on this as a

passive recreation area; there are environmental people wanting to save the Scrub Jays; and

both can be done is what the Town of Malabar is suggesting. He pointed out to look at the

numbers, blue is east and red is west, they are not to scale, those are just so people can see it,

and those are generally what is being discussed; there are not any in the middle of the

opportunity areas; west is kind of diminished just by the nature of west; they are really talking

more of the east side; the numbers in the packages today are specific per each of the requests,

how many trees are being requested to be preserved, how many acres that involves, all that is

summarized; and what it comes down to is ultimately, and everyone has heard the three

percent being thrown out, and the Town is suggesting that this can be done. He stated the

Town of Malabar has worked real hard to produce a package that they can work with the

County to save Scrub Jays, and also respect the other ideals of the EELs mission, which is not

to just cut down the forest; their prospective is itemized in the package; what it comes to is 507

trees on 17.7 acres which equates to about 3.1 percent; it also includes the modification, one

site, the number six area, that is the site they are requesting be converted to the 40 trees per

acre; and he thinks there are some people in there, respect that not all birds live in the scrub;

they feel that number six, down by the pond should be 40 trees per acre; it is a simple change

involving 4.13 acres; that 165 trees is almost a part of the 507, so again three percent of the

change is all that they are asking for; the last thing does not involve removing trees, it does not

involve any acreage, it is basically talking about working with the County to reroute trails to

where they are not-so-much in the scrub area, so it nets more Scrub Jay area territory; he

asked that the County please look at this map; he stated the map basically says that on the

edges is where they want to save some trees and it is the middle that has to be worked into; he

reiterated 300 foot, come into the middle, start the 300-foot on the inside of the sanctuary, after

saving a few trees that are here; they have worked real hard on this and they think they are at a

point where they can hopefully reach some kind of agreement today; and ultimately, he

mentioned the middle has to be empty for the Scrub Jays, it could be reduced, it could be

optimal level as far as scrub intensity and density, open area, scrub height. He added they are

not arguing with that part they are just saying they need to keep some stuff on the sides; they

hope the Board enjoys the package and finds that it is pretty serious, and it found some

compromise; they hope today is a good day for everybody because they are ready to talk. He

asked if there were any questions. He advised the packet contains all the back up; he stated

there is a lot of information and they would be there a few days to go through it all; he thinks it

is best that he just did the slides from the front; and each one is separately identified with

photos, dimensions, what it is they are asking for, and with the total trees that they are talking

about.

Mike Knight, Environmentally Endangered Lands (EELs) Manager, stated the County would

rather not be there either; it took him years and years to consider what had to be done to deal

with Scrub habitat; they struggled with it for many, many years, but he is now in his 26th year

with the County and he has seen the science for many years; he has seen the system work and

he has seen them be restored; he has seen them go from zero Jays to so many Jays that one

cannot walk through a site without one landing on your shoulder; it works and it is scrub; and it

is just the nature of what he does. He pointed out there are two photos on the screen and the

one on the left is what overgrown scrub looks like; these are overgrown oak trees, not live oak

trees, they are scrub oak trees; they are not supposed to be that big, they have only gotten that

big due to fire suppression; and pine trees have infiltrated the area due to fire suppression. He

noted all this happened prior to the County getting it and now it is in the issue of having to get

these trees back down because the normal fire cycles that are on the system are not working;

the photo on the right is what it is going to look like; this is not a place where animals are going

to go scurrying off to other places; these places have deer; he heard someone say that Jordan

Scrub has no wildlife, and he was just down there last week and he saw two deer, there is an

abundance of Scrub Jays on the scrub sites in that area; and the idea that wildlife is leaving

those areas could not be further from the truth. He went on to say, really this is what they are

looking at, this is what they are trying to achieve; it is not a clear cut, it is not vegetation

completely removed, it is just trees reduced down; this is what one to two trees per acre looks

like on a landscape, it is not a clear cut; the property was purchased as many people stated

under the referendum, specifically for the purpose of protecting the Scrub species; the policy

manual they operate under was actually created by the County Commission prior to the vote

going to the public; in fact, it went to the public in 1989, it failed because there was not a lot of

science based on the system, and then in the summer of 1990 the policy manual was created;

and this is what it said, the primary objective for the program is to protect the protection of the

landscape for preservation, and a clear secondary objective is where some of the lands can be

used for non-consumptive recreation. He stated what optimal scrub habitat is, is essentially a

condition which the individuals in the population grow to adulthood and survive through

adulthood instead of dying before they get there; this is largely an open landscape four to five

and one-half feet tall, essentially, with buffers that vary, but ideally one would want to shoot for

1,000-foot edge buffer, from the edge of any forest; he reiterated this happened all because of

30 years of natural fire exclusion; normally natural wild fires prevent all this from happening;

they prevent these trees from growing in these densities, and prevent the oaks from growing

this large; they have been trying for a number of years, since the property has been acquired,

to take care of this issue; and they had mitigation development that he will talk about shortly,

which has helped. He explained the site has had three private development mitigation projects

on them; most of that mitigation work was done on the Malabar west site; he pointed out it is all

these areas with blue foot prints show where this development took place; these were

developments, they were in impacting scrub habitat in other parts of the County; in order to get

their permits for development, they were able to come onto this property and get permits from

the Army Corp of Engineers, the US Fish and Wildlife Service, and the St. Johns River Water

Management District to improve Scrub habitat to a particular condition; the permit required that

those tree curtains be removed; and what happened back then, and the most recent one was in

2014, staff made a decision to minimize the number of trees that came down along the trails

specifically to see what was going to happen with the Scrub Jay response. He noted they were

very clear at the time they did that, that there was a very good possibility that they would have

to come back and remove those trees because they are very confident that the Scrub Jays are

going to come back and take care of it; now under the permit, staff was required to do that in

the first place; they are held accountable not only to their own management plan, but also to

these mitigation permits; at the time they did this, the Town Manager, a different Town

Manager, was okay with them using the right-of-way, in which they maintain a fire line; all that

mitigation was done right up to the edge of that right-of-way; and that is why those trees were

removed at that particular time. He commented overall they have work to do across the entire

landscape, but most of the landscape, especially in Malabar East and the central part of it, is in

really good condition, in fact, it is a reference site for the Florida Natural area’s inventory in the

State of Florida; it is one of those exceptional areas where one can see what scrub habitat was

really supposed to look like; they are leaving out the major creek bottom on Malabar West,

which is the area where the double yellow lines are; the tree thinning will vary depending, in

some cases they do not have to do any because it is already in great shape; however, they will

be working specifically towards habitat descriptions that are stated under FNA which are habitat

descriptions used by burning agencies, and used by all of the land management agencies in

the State of Florida. He stated the reason for doing this now is mainly because the Scrub Jays

are responding to the mitigation work that is being done; they also have the PBA study which

has shown that there is a much shorter time frame for this population, and they need to be

working more quickly; the RBA also showed that this population can be sustained long-term as

long as they can manage all those sites together; managing 70 percent strong habitat, one has

to remember that scrub habitat fluctuates, and optimal scrub habitat is only a particular point in

time in the state of that property, so the trees grow up and get too big, fire knocks it back down,

then it is too small, and then it comes back up; it is in that little sweet spot that one has to keep

managing; normally, that was done with prescribed fire on a regular basis; but it cannot keep

70 percent of the habitat in a strong condition, it has to have a lot more than that available so

that there is 70 percent, because it is all going to be in different stages of process. He

mentioned they recently relocated, within the last two months, as part of the PBA, four families

of Scrub Jays, he thinks there were maybe 16 birds, from the Cruickshank Sanctuary, which is

doing exceptionally well and is over populated with Scrub Jays, to Grant-Valkaria where they

recently did some restoration; they know at least two of those Scrub Jays have found their way

to Jordan Scrub; they have not seen any make it to Malabar area; but they are migrating back

this way, so that is a good sign that what is being done is working. He went on to say there

have been some recommendations related to trails and some of them have merit; he has

received some proposed options related to trails, in fact, moving some of the trails out of the

scrub zone and into the hammock areas, so they will ever be impacted by the scrub

management; EELs have provided a number of compromises in addition to the trails; they have

looked at doing some additional trail modifications; they have re-identified trees along these

sections of the trail, that were left previously, and they have determined which levels of trees;

they had Scrub Jay experts come out and ask how many of the trees could be left in particular

places along the trails; that was already done and have been marked; they have also looked at

the perimeter of the trails, and he pointed out in picture two, it shows the North Canal boundary

of the North side of Malabar east, and all those trees that are in the fence line that are basically

between the fire line and the trail, or the boundary fence were going to be left anyway, they

were not planning on really taking those down; they have identified an additional bunch of trees

along the Country Cove property to try to minimize that concern on that side; and they have

identified three different scenarios related to trails. He continued by saying these maps sort of

show, the left is Malabar West and there is a green line that goes along the bottom and the

side to the east and it is the same on the Malabar East on the right; he explained all those

green lines are where that vegetation already exists; all that vegetation that exists along the

right side of the paved trail, between the paved trail and the fence, is not going to be removed;

all of that buffer vegetation will remain there; they have also pointed out and pre-identified

where these trees are and what trees will be preserved that are on the inside of fire line; and

obviously that is more of a concern for them, but they took the time to go out there and decide

how many can be left and the distances to make sure those trees are far enough apart that

they will not cause perching problems for raptors. He mentioned these are some of those

examples; the top left is the paved trail on Marie Street, which is on the other side of the trees

to the left; all those pine trees along the paved trail and Marie Street along the fence will remain

there; the picture to the right, same thing; on Malabar west, all that tree vegetation that exists

between the line and the homes will remain in there; bottom left, same thing, all the palm trees

and trees along the left side would remain and then some of the trees on the right would be

thinned out; and the bottom right again, all those trees right there in that picture would be left

except for probably the pine tree to the right, but that is all the stuff that is along the fence line.

He noted there is a significant amount of buffer vegetation there; he is not aware that they have

been able to land anywhere on having the same opinion about what to do with the trails; he is

not seeing anything in the presentation that is any different from what had already been

discussed, if there is, there is always room to talk about that; he did not see anything in the

Town’s presentation about the 25-footwide buffer that they wanted them to leave around the

perimeter of the site, so he does not know where that stands; however, there is a lot of talk

about the 1,000-foot buffer and the 300-foot buffer. He explained the difference between the

two is that the 300-foot buffer is determined by FWC Conservation Commission to be a

short-term solution, not a long-term solution; the other argument is that they could not get

1,000 feet at Cruickshank Sanctuary so why even try to go that far; the Cruickshank Sanctuary

has been extremely successful to the point where it is one of the most popular places to see

Scrub Jays in Brevard County; actually so many so, that they have had to move some of them

to the south, which is really the position they want to be in because the key with Scrub Jay

populations is ensuring that there is enough gene diversity in that population; if there is not,

they simply just breed themselves into extinction and become isolated small populations that

are not going to survive; but going less, or leaving more trees along the buffer just because one

cannot achieve to 1,000-foot buffer, is really contrary to the idea of protecting the Scrub Jays.

He stated this is the last slide and it just shows in the FWC Scrub Management Guideline that

guides everything that they do, it shows the difference between the optimal scrub conditions on

the left and the 1,000-foot buffer at the bottom and suitable Scrub Jay habitat is really only for

short-term protection of the Scrub Jays when talking about a 300-foot buffer.

DISCUSSION/POSSIBLE ACTION OF ATTENDEES

Morris Richardson, County Attorney, explained this is the portion of the joint meeting where the

elected officials, Town Council, and County Commission can consider the issues that were

heard, maybe ask questions of any respective presenters, and discuss any possible solutions.

Marisa Acquaviva, Town of Malabar Council Member for District 1, stated she is so proud of

everyone there and her hope and prayer is that they can all be examples, they have the

blessing of this land in Brevard County, and that they can work this out; she thinks they can;

she lives in Country Cove so this is her District; she has lived here for 30 years; and she really

wants this to come to a resolution. She mentioned she has a question, as a resident living

there; when she first moved there, there used to be prescribed burns all the time; she feels like

they do all this work but it is not being maintained to keep it at optimal within the last 30 years,

or whenever they voted on the referendum; a lot of times, she feels, as a resident, that they get

a bad name because people think they are against the Scrub Jays; she noted they are the

ones out there cleaning it up; it is their land as well; she wants to be good stewards of that but

she also, moving forward into this grand thing, wonders is it going to be taken care of because

she does not feel like it has been in the last 10 years with prescribed burns; and when she

reads about it, it sounds like that is what needs to be happening on the maintenance level. She

asked why it gets so overgrown.

Mike Knight, Environmentally Endangered Lands (EELs) Program Manager, stated as he

mentioned earlier, it is overgrown because it was overgrown 30 years prior to the County

acquiring the property; EELs has tried very hard to use prescribed fire as a tool to get

vegetation back down; the problem is once a Scrub Oak or a Pine tree becomes too big it

become fire resistant and those large trees that they are talking about today are the trees that

have been there from the beginning, that they have not been able to get under control; and that

is why they have to do the mechanical removal.

Ms. Acquaviva asked if there will be prescribed burns to maintain that if they are going to come

some resolution, moving forward; and she reiterated what she is saying is she really wants to

take care of the Scrub Jay.

Mr. Knight responded absolutely. He noted there would have to be regularly prescribed fires at

the appropriate

intervals.

Ms. Acquaviva inquired if that would be on EELs to do that.

Mr. Knight responded affirmatively.

David Scardino, Town of Malabar Council Member for District 4, stated it looks like EELs is

willing to make some compromises, along with the Town Council, who wants to make some

compromises also, and he asked what it would take to get the public back to using the

recreation and cutting the gates. He asked what can be done for that while they are all still in

negotiations; and can an effort be made for them to use the land while they are doing this.

Commissioner Tobia stated he has always said he would be more than willing if a permit was

issued and the County would immediately do that; he does not know if he was on the Town

Council at the time, but, arbitrarily there was a $40 fee for cutting down each tree; he is not

putting the blame on any of stuff, he is saying the County took action as well as the Town

taking action; does he think anyone is blameless, no, but if the Town Council was to commit to

issuing the permit right now, absolutely; and he would put on some shoes and go out there and

help remove the gates today.

Mr. Scardino stated they need to get the two parties together to negotiate a handful of trees; it

sounds like there is a group; they need to come to a resolution on what is going to be

preserved; there is give and take between the two sides, and he asked who from the County

side would be doing that with the Town Council.

Chair Pritchett advised she thinks that would be with the County Attorney.

Commissioner Tobia mentioned his understanding is that they have already done that; this was

the compromise before by the experts; the County was hoping they would follow science; that

is what the County is asking for; if this moves forward and the permit is issued, he has no

problem with the gates; that is not what this Commission intended to do; he believes it gave 30

days warning before it happened so it was not something that was done that night; the County

received no extension on the permit; someone was there when that $40 fee magically popped

up; that is how they ended up there; and his position is when the County made that vote, that

was a condition that the County would immediately take down the gate.

Mr. Scardino mentioned he still thinks there is some work to be done on the two sides; he

thinks they are fairly close; he sees the County is willing to leave some buffer; and he sees

from his own side that they are not quite there; he thinks somehow it needs to go back and do

some negotiation and come to a resolution; and he thinks with the science they are fairly close

from what he can see.

Chair Pritchett stated she thinks Mr. Knight tried this at a previous meeting and he was not able

to get information out and that is why they ended up in this position; she believes he was shot

down; she knows right now they are talking about moving the trails, but that was already a

topic…

Mr. Scardino interjected by saying he thinks they have to have an agreement.

Chair Pritchett reiterated that was already a topic of what was being considered; and Mr. Knight

can jump in.

Mr. Knight stated his understanding was there was not support from the Town on the trail

proposal that they had; and as far as the science is concerned, the County does not feel there

is any room for negotiations on the tree density because leaving any more trees than what the

County was proposing to leave would be detrimental to the goals of the property.

Mr. Scardino asked if the County offered the trail relocation, was it previously offered or if this is

something new; and he stated it is not set in stone that the trail would be relocated.

Mr. Knight responded that is correct; the County has offered that as a compromised option to

relocate the trails.

Mr. Scardino that had not been negotiated, it was just recently offered.

Mr. Knight responded it has been since the beginning; since the first time the Greenways and

Trails Committee proposed considering relocating trails, ever since that originally happened,

the County was supportive of doing something similar to that.

Attorney Richardson stating more recently, at the end of last year, Mr. Knight, Karl Bohne, Matt

Stinnett and himself walked the property out there, talked about the potential trail relocations,

and there may be an opportunity for Mr. Knight to elaborate just a little bit more on what that

trail relocation would look like; and it would actually add additional trails in terms of the overall

length, and relocate some of those trails to parts that are going to be shaded and trees will

remain natural.

Mr. Scardino stated if they cannot get an agreement today, he would like to see the attorneys

go back to the table and see if they can reach an agreement.

Attorney Richardson advised if there is no agreement today, what is going to happen is the

County and the Town will be selecting a mediator within the next 14 days and they will all be

back at the table, attorneys and staff from both parties, within 14 days from that, so in the next

28 days they will have a mediation where staff could potentially mediate an agreement; what

will be hard is, as was indicated, people are not there yet; after that it is go back to court; in

court the judge gives a decision, typically it is all or nothing; and these compromises that are

being discussed like trail relocation, which are negotiated, that is not part of what happens with

the outcome of this.

Brain Vail, Town of Malabar Council Member for District 2, stated it sounds to him like there are

some details to work out; he does not know if they are going to come up with a resolution

today; it sounds like staff needs to get together and come up with an agreement; he believes

everyone wants to come up with a compromise in this; obviously no one is going to have

anything to present at this meeting; it would be something that would need to be prepared, as

long as there is an understanding that everyone is willing to work together; and he would like to

see it go back and have the staff get back together before going to that other step, to see if

everyone can negotiate a settlement.

Chair Pritchett mentioned she is probably not agreeable with that and moving some of the trails

because the County has already been through this a bit; she does not know where the other

Commissioners are at; part of the issue is the bike path; even if the County moved it, which she

does not mind, it can still be used for recreation; the only part that will be affected is some of

the shading which is the primary purpose of trying to protect the Scrub Jays; the County has

the responsibility of protecting the Scrubs; it was given to the County, and even moving forward

trying to do these things, it is expensive; and if there was any way not to cut them, the County

would rather not because it has to pay for them, but NASA scientists came back on the

information and this was the recommendation that came up. She asked Mr. Knight is that is

correct.

Mr. Knight responded affirmatively.

Chair Pritchett continued by saying that is what the County is looking at right now; the County is

not making any money doing this; as a matter of fact, it is costing a fortune; but it is just trying

to do its best with the responsibility that it has been given by the State of Florida, with the

property.

Mr. Vail asked there is no consideration for the fact that it is only three percent of the land

volume and there are specific unique areas; there are other habitants in the area; there are

pine trees, there are other species around by the pond behind Malabar Park; they had

discussed at one of their Council meetings, and Mr. Knight was there, and he is not a scientist,

but it seems as though three percent is not going to significantly affect the plan or how well the

intent of the plan is going to work; the Town Council has done its part in this; they have given

up rights-of way, given up different areas in the town, the Fire Department has protected the

land as needed; they have provided service to the EELs when they have the prescribed burns;

manpower resources willing went out there to support them; and on a second token that comes

to a significant cost to them as well because there is no tax base on that land to support their

efforts. He added also they lost that land to development in the industrial area and the higher

density residential area, which is Malabar Scrub, and Jordan is the industrial. He reiterated the

Town of Malabar is giving up a lot; he stated he thinks that three percent is not asking for whole

lot; he has been hanging out in Malabar since 1978; he pointed out this is his place; he started

sitting on the Council in 2002; he has been on and off council; his heart is in this town and he

knows a lot of people who really love this town and will do a lot for this town; they have trail

efforts where people get out there, they built the Cameron Trail shelter, they have done trail

heads, they have done another trail head; this town is devoted to the trails system and that

comes as a major cost to them because they have no financial support; and he thinks the three

percent is not too much to ask for.

Mr. Knight stated the percentage is understandable, however, it is not the issue, the issue is

the location of the trees; the problem is the trees and where they sit is right in the middle of the

scrub areas; it is not a matter of the percentage of trees, it is the fact that the structure of these

trees in this particular locations that are causing the problem; and that is the reason it does not

work with the tree count.

Patrick Reilly, Town of Malabar Mayor, stated without council’s objection, he would like to throw

the first offer on the table to get this going; first he would like to get the locks off of the gates,

without the permit; in doing so, the Town of Malabar will waive the permit fee, will waive the fee

for the removal and the tree permit; it will also waive the tree survey; they would like to leave

the compilation of the trees per the Greenways presentation; and that is their offer without

Town Council’s objection. He mentioned really the only negotiation he sees is the amount of

trees per acre.

Ms. Acquaviva advised that is 507 trees.

Mr. Reilly continued by saying they are giving up $400,000 for tree permit, that is $40 per tree,

10,000 trees; they are giving up the tree survey; they are giving up a lot; like Mr. Vail said, the

Town is already giving Brevard County a lot of the Town’s industrial land; he would like to open

up the trails again, today, and get those locks off; this is unfair to the citizens of Brevard County

that those locks are on there; and they all pay for that land. He mentioned to get arrested for

using the trails is just not right; and that is the offer to the County Commission.

Frank Abbate, County Manager, mentioned he has a question; he stated subsequent to the

presentation, it showed there were six compromise options; subsequent to those six, and he

thinks they were skirted over, but not a lot of attention was paid to it, he asked if subsequently

they went back through that property, looked at additional trees that were marked, and inquired

if those were the additional trees that were marked with the green trees in the presentation; and

he asked if those additional ones were not discussed previously when staff went there initially

to see what would remain, are shown on the presentation that were not shown previously.

Mr. Knight responded affirmatively; he noted those were trees that probably would have been

left anyway; when they were doing the work they specifically look at where the trees are and try

to be identifying them as much as possible along the trail system; and they just went out

preemptively and identified where those are.

Mr. Abbate inquired if they were the ones that were not shown, so it was not known to anyone

that they would be staying as well.

Mr. Knight responded affirmatively.

Mr. Abbate advised he wanted to make sure that was clear, because he does not think that

came out as part of what was going on.

Ms. Acquaviva stated real quick just to the point about the tree permit, her own subdivision has

been fined for taking out trees and had to replant them; this was not an arbitrary thing that was

done to be vindictive about those trees out there; they try to preserve there; and they are a

Trails and Greenway town, which is very prestigious.

Chair Pritchett advised the County already had this permit and they had trouble trying to

ascertain the grant funds.

Ms. Acquaviva interjected by saying it had expired.

Chair Pritchett continued by saying that is correct but typically they would have gone ahead and

extended it; she feels it was a little bit of an emotional response; she does not know; and that is

why they are all there today.

Karl Bohne, Town of Malabar Attorney, asked to bring up the slide that Mr. Knight was referring

to with the initial trees; what he is saying is he thinks they are close; he wants to give Mr.

Thompson an opportunity to just address it very briefly; and if he understands correctly all

those new pine trees there are additional preserved trees since they had all last spoken; and he

inquired if that is correct.

Mr. Knight responded that is true; there would have been trees that they would have left

initially, they just had not gone out and physically identified those on the map.

Mr. Bohne asked what those yellow things are.

Mr. Knight replied they are the trees that were previously identified along Country Cove.

Mr. Bohne asked if they are to be preserved.

Mr. Knight responded affirmatively.

Mr. Bohne asked if the map on the right hand side, if the yellow are the ones that were agreed

upon to preserve, and the green are the additional ones since they last spoke.

Mr. Knight stated yes and the green shaded line all along there, and he pointed out the green

line; and he explained all of this is existing vegetation between the fire line and the boundary

fence that was not going to be removed anyway, but it was not previously shown on a map.

Mr. Bohne asked if Mr. Thompson could come up and address it.

Mr. Scardino advised he thinks they are close.

Mr. Thompson stated he thinks this is a situation where everyone is trying to absorb a lot of

good information, real quick; the way he is absorbing it, from what he has seen in the past and

what was presented today, he thinks the Commission is at a disadvantage in that it has not had

a chance to absorb the specifics that are in the packets; he thinks a lot of what Mr. Knight has

shown today, has a lot of overlapping; he thinks there are two versions of this that are so close,

that it would be a shame to abandon it at this point; there is a lot of work going both ways to try

to accommodate the other party; and he thinks what the key thing is, they are not disputing the

inside of this project, the tree density in the middle, is what they are trying to accommodate, by

basically preserving small patches on the peripheral. He continued by saying, as Mr. Knight

mentioned, the 1,000 foot, they want as much as they can; what the Town of Malabar is saying

is basically start on the inside and try to save on the edge; he thinks if they look through the

packet and compare what Mr. Knight is proposing to what they are proposing there is a whole

lot of overlapping; unfortunately, he does not know if there is time today to do this; the intent of

the presentation done today was to provide the packets so it would be available to not have to

take the time to go into that level of detail.

Mr. Scardino reiterated once again, he thinks everyone is so close; right now it is on the trail

relocation and a handful of trees from what he can see; and he asked to place the two attorney

together briefly to see if they can come to something.

Mr. Knight responded in his opinion they tried.

Mr. Scardino noted the Town of Malabar is trying today.

Mr. Knight stated the locations that Mr. Thompson is referring to, he had a series of numbers

on his slide and each of those locations, they specifically meant to, before this even became an

issue, they went there because those are the trees that were left last time outside of the Army

Corp of Engineers permit that they were required to remove; those were left there to see if the

Jays were never going to respond to it and all they are dealing with is Gopher Turtles and other

scrub species they would never have to have this conversation; but because they have, those

trees are the problem, those interior trees that Mr. Thompson has numbered on the interior;

they have already looked at the 25 trees in the stretch and determined which of those trees can

be protected; and he does not see from the science view point, that there is any room to find

more trees.

Mr. Scardino inquired so it is just on the edges; they are both in agreement; looks like both

agree with the edges; he asked how many trees are in the middle that they are having a

disagreement about; he asked for everyone to look at this and try to get something done here

today.

Mr. Bohne mentioned he did not think they were talking about trees in the middle at all.

Mr. Scardino stated he does not think they are. He asked that the slide be put back up and see

if this can be worked out today.

DISCUSSION/POSSIBLE ACTION OF ATTENDEES

Chair Pritchett stated she thinks what Mr. Knight is saying is that he is adding those trees to the

perimeter and he will change some bike paths and she thinks that is what they are saying as

well.

Mr. Scardino noted he thinks they are saying the same thing; he thinks they can come to an

agreement; he stated they could get the park opened back up, get the trees on the buffer, on

the edges like they are talking about and relocate some bike paths; and to get this thing

resolved today.

Chair Pritchett stated most likely.

Mr. Reilly asked if the Board could do a poll to see where they stand; and he mentioned they

gave an offer.

Chair Pritchett advised on the middle trees, Mr. Knight is saying there is probably 7,000 trees in

the middle that he is going to have to get to a lower base; and she asked if they place those

others on the outside and rearrange the bike trails would they be able to go with that number

standing.

Mr. Scardino advised he thinks that would be fine; and he thinks that is a good compromise. He

stated for them to come to a compromise.

Mr. Knight responded he is confused; what he is seeing on the map, most of that is not exterior

perimeter, it is interior clumps of trees that have been debated on and on for a tremendous

amount of time; and he is confused as to how they are getting to only perimeter.

Mr. Scardino stated they are willing to concede some of those.

Chair Pritchett asked if they were good with the other map, and to work off of that.

Mr. Scardino stated they are going back to the perimeter map; they are going to relocate the

trails, they are going to open the gates back up, waive the permit fees, and the tree survey.

Attorney Richardson asked if they could pull up the map that they are agreeing to just so…

Mr. Scardino interjected by saying so everyone can be on the same page.

Mr. Knight advised he just wants to be clear, so they are all on the same page; those numbers

that everyone saw on Mr. Thompson’s map represent places along the trails, like up in here,

and here where these numbers are specific locations along the trails where there are roots of

both trees; he pointed out there is another one up in here, several down in this area, and what

he is hearing is that everyone is okay with a compromise that has been reached on that the

County has identified specific trees in those clumps that they are okay with protecting; and he

inquired if that is what he is hearing.

Mr. Scardino responded that is correct, but the County is also going to relocate the trails and

open the gates.

Mr. Knight stated responded sure; he is not hearing that there is any conflict, other than, there

are regular buffer trees, there is the vegetative strip, there are these individual tree locations;

one thing this map really does not show, and he apologizes for that, it does not show that there

are certain trees identified in these particular locations along this section of the trail; but those

are certainly what they would be happy to preserve.

Attorney Richardson explained, to be clear, it is not the entire clumps of trees on the trails, it is

certain trees that were marked.

Mr. Knight responded affirmatively.

Mr. Scardino stated he thinks they are so close; and this is what the Town’s intention was, to

preserve the views from the side to protect the citizens so they would not have to look out and

across the bearing waste land or scrub preserve.

Mr. Knight responded by saying absolutely; he stated he thinks the trails will be much better.

Mr. Scardino stated then let’s do this.

Mr. Vail stated just for clarification he is looking at the map that the Town of Malabar presented;

are all the numbers of concern on the perimeter of the property; and he asked if that is agreed

upon.

Chair Pritchett responded affirmatively.

Mr. Knight mentioned that is the same map; in his opinion where there is conflict is number six;

his understanding is the Town wants them to preserve and not take that section down to one to

two trees per acre; it is an overgrown pine forest; and he does not agree with that.

Mr. Vail asked if that is adjacent to the pond.

Mr. Knight advised it is. He continued on by saying the County has preserved some trees in

there, but it is his understanding that the intent of this map is to not take any of those trees

down in that section; and he wants to be clear…

Mr. Scardino interjected by saying there is a compromise there.

Mr. Knight stated he is just trying to make sure everyone is on the same page. He went on to

say number one is not a perimeter site, but again it is just a reduction of the clumps that are

there; he is not really clear on some of the locations; and he is not clear what six is on west, the

red six.

Mr. Vail stated five and six were more about the trail relocation and why they are moving trails

than adding additional trails; they are all for additional trails; and the question was why close

down the trails.

Mr. Knight noted that EELs is not adding a trail, they are happy to relocate a trail, but they do

not want to add to it; they think there are too many trails at the site already; this is an

opportunity to move a trail out a key scrub area, that people are just going to be upset with

when it gets restored and they think that is a better solution; three is obviously a trail relocation;

and four, other than the perimeter vegetation, there is a clump of oak trees that the County has

not agreed to. He mentioned area four is not an area where they have identified any trees to be

protected in that zone.

Mr. Vail stated then they are pretty close.

Mr. Knight commented he would certainly say they are close.

Mr. Vail mentioned they are there to protect their town and to voice the concerns of their

constituents; they came to the Town Council with a lot of concerns; they need to report their

concerns and more importantly their constituents concerns; it seems like they are getting really

close; he thinks everyone wants this to go away; and financially it makes sense.

Commissioner Tobia stated he apologizes if he came across poorly; he has a great deal of

respect, not only for the role everyone plays, but voicing the concerns of the constituents

whether he agrees with them or not; they have a very important role and he does not mean to

diminish them; the concerns he has had with that board in the past because of how they

treated his staff, his understanding is those people are no longer on that board; treating the

Commissioners that way is fine, but not staff, and he reiterated that was the people on the

board previously to those who are there now; and he reiterated if he came across poorly he

apologizes for that. He continued by saying he is surprised that they have gotten to where they

have today; he wants to capsulize this, he was taking pretty good notes and when he looked

over at the County Attorney he had the same four points as he himself had, and that is scary;

the first is to remove the gates immediately, and he thinks that can be done very quickly;

second, waive the fees for the permit; third, relocate the trails; and the fourth is to work off of

the map that was presented by Mr. Knight. He went on to say if those four conditions, and he

has not spoken with his fellow Commissioners, but he would certainly be amenable to that even

going as far as removing the gates before they receive that permit because he understands

that takes time; and he reiterated the four points are to remove the gate, waive the fees for the

permit, work off the map presented by Mr. Knight, and relocate the trails.

Chair Pritchett advised she is in agreement with that.

Attorney Richardson stated something additional for the town that was left out of the proposal

was along the trail, the trees that had been previously identified would be saved as part of the

package and in addition to the permit, they also waived the survey requirement; and that is

what he heard.

Mr. Scardino asked if the Board is in agreement and then there will be a vote.

Chair Pritchett stated they are all in agreement.

Mr. Reilly stated he has one comment; the Board considered these trees on the site to wait to

see what happens and he would appreciate if EELs would leave trees in some locations to see

what happens; they can always come back and take more trees in the future if needed; and he

would like that to be considered. He asked Mr. Knight to leave the oak hammock now and then

if they need to thin it out later they could do that.

Chair Pritchett advised Mr. Knight that she would like any tree that he could save to stay and he

could go ahead and make the decision later, she would expect him to do that anyway, it is his

job; and he is really good at it.

Mr. Scardino inquired if there is an agreement.

Commissioner Goodson stated not yet.

Chair Pritchett commented not yet, but she knows he would do that because she knows what

he is like.

Commissioner Goodson stated if they are going to direct Mr. Knight to cut trees it is going to be

a slow process; he asked, if the tree person had to come back what the cost would be; he

explained once that timber guy goes away he is not coming back tomorrow for the same price

to remove four trees.

Mr. Knight responded by saying it is very expensive and EELs is in the position it is in today

because they had left trees in the past; and he would like to avoid that situation in the future.

Chair Pritchett asked Mr. Knight if he would not remove any tree that he did not think was

necessary.

Mr. Knight responded he absolutely would not.

Commissioner Goodson stated but he is not going to go in the direction of them.

Chair Pritchett stated he is just making sure it is clear and it is legal; Attorney Richardson is

going to give legal one in just a minute; and she asked if the Town had any more comments.

Mr. Vail stated he keeps going back to this same topic; as long as some of the map that has

been provided by the Town is considered by Mr. Knight into his plan.

Chair Pritchett noted she does not know if she would vote that that gets put into the plan, since

he has already done the study, but she does not know where the rest of the Board is; if he

comes across a tree and decides he does not need to remove that one, she would certainly fall

on his expertise for that moment; but right now she would not write that into the compromise

right now because she thinks the County has given a bit here to do this with adding trees. She

asked the County Attorney how to set this up so that everyone is agreeable on it moving

forward, if everyone is.

Attorney Richardson replied the next step would be an interlocal agreement between the

parties; that is something that would be brought back and it would have to be adopted at

separate meetings; he would suggest that the next step here, and he knows Mr. Bohne has to

go to court, but since there has been discussions and they summarized it, they could

summarize once more and then each governing body would entertain a motion to direct the

attorneys and staff to prepare an interlocal agreement to bring back prospective Commission

and council approval; and that would be the steps. He noted he will just run it down one last

time: locks off gates without the permit in hand, as soon as possible; County to relocate the

trails; Town will waive the permit fees, permit requirement, and tree survey requirement; the

trees will be maintained per the County; Mr. Knight’s map on the perimeter buffer that was on

the PowerPoint; and along the trails, all the trees that Mr. Knight had previously identified could

be saved and remain will remain.

Mr. Bohne asked if Mr. Knight’s map takes into consideration any buffer width, there is a

25-foot width; is there any area that that can be done, where additional trees are being

preserved.

Mr. Knight stated the only place where there is that kind of width is like on Country Cove, but it

is still just tree thinning along there, but as far as the vegetative buffer that he identified with the

green line, that buffer varies anywhere from one tree width to probably 20 feet; and it depends

on where the fire line is relative to the fence line.

Ms. Acquaviva asked if it would be done in phases; she stated she knows a lot of concerns at

their meetings was about the fire; and she asked again if that is being done in stages.

Mr. Knight advised fires are always done in small batches; they do not want to burn the whole

site at once; but as far as the tree removal, they had originally planned to have Florida Forest

Service come in and do the work because it would not cost anything to have that done because

they handle the contract; he is not sure, due to the correct market with timber if they can get a

contractor to come back in; they have budgeted some money to try to get it done as quickly as

possible; therefore, he thinks the tree removal would happen fairly quickly.

Mary Hofmeister, Town of Malabar Council Member for District 5, inquired as far as the trail

relocation, who will oversee that and will EELs be working with Trails and Greenway with the

trail relocation and can that be a joint effort.

Mr. Knight stated as far as the tree removal, the oversight would be with EELs primarily; he

does not have a problem working with Trails and Greenway Committee on the trails, but he

does not want to get back into a debate about where the trails need to go and which ones

should be relocated and which ones should not. He added his preference would be that be

handled through the selection and management committee.

Mr. Reilly stated he would like to move on to get council approval.

Mr. Scardino made the motion to approve.

Ms. Acquaviva seconded the motion. All Ayes - 5:0

Commissioner Tobia made a motion to direct County staff to come up with an interlocal

agreement that includes: unlocking the gates without permit in hand; County to relocate trails;

Town will waive permit fees, permit requirement, and tree survey; trees left per County’s map

on the perimeter buffer from the PowerPoint that was presented; and along the trails the trees

that were previously identified to be saved.

Commissioner Goodson seconded the motion.

The Board directed the County Attorney and staff to prepare an Interlocal Agreement with the

Town of Malabar for maintenance of the Malabar Scrub Sanctuary to include: removing locks

from the gates, without a permit, as soon as possible; County staff will relocate trails; Town of

Malabar to waive permit fees, permit requirement, and tree survey requirement; trees will be

maintained, per Mike Knight, EEL Program Manager’s map, on the perimeter buffer as shown

on his PowerPoint presentation; and along the trails, all trees that were previously identified by

Mike Knight to be saved, will remain.

Result: APPROVED

Mover: John Tobia

Seconder: Tom Goodson

ADJOURNMENT