Rollcall

Commissioner District 1 Katie Delaney , Commissioner District 2

Tom Goodson, Commissioner District 3 Kim Adkinson,

Commissioner District 4 Rob Feltner, and Commissioner District 5

Thad Altman

Present:

PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE: Commissioner Katie Delaney, District 1

Commissioner Delaney led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.

D.1. Announcement of the Percentage Change in the FY 2025-2026 Aggregate

Tentatively Adopted Millage from the Aggregate Rolled-Back Rate

Chairman Feltner called for a public hearing for announcement of the percentage change in the

FY 2025-2026 aggregate tentatively adopted millage from the aggregate rolled-back rate.

Jim Liesenfelt, County Manager, stated this Item allows for the reading of the tentative

aggregate operating millage to fund the portion of the Fiscal Year 2025-2026 budget that is

supported by property taxes; and at this time he will ask the Budget Office to read into the

record the tentative aggregate millage rate for FY 2025-2026.

Jill Hayes, Interim Assistant County Manager and Budget Office Director, stated the aggregate

tentative millage rate for the FY 2025-2026 budget is 4.5129; the tentative aggregate millage

rate represents a 5.43 percent increase when compared to the aggregate rolled back rate of

4.2806; and the tentative aggregate millage rate represents 1.66 percent increase when

compared to the current FY 2024-2025 aggregate millage rate of 4.4390.

Mr. Liesenfelt stated as approved by the Board on July 22, the tentative millages have been set

at the rate required to fund Board priorities, including public safety, specifically for the Fire

Rescue wage package, as well as higher funding requirements for constitutional officer

budgets, along with an increase in the mandatory Medicaid contributions to the State and other

operational requirements; in addition, this includes an increase in the voter approved millages

for the Fire Control Multiple Services Taxing Unit (MSTU) and the Parks and Recreation

millages; and in Agenda Item D.2. the Board will hear comments from the public and then

discuss millages, associated revenues, and Agenda Item D.3.

Chairman Feltner advised no motion is needed for this Item and the Board will move on to Item

D.2.

There being no further comments or objections, the Board acknowledged the Budget Office

reading into the record the percentage by which the aggregate millage necessary to fund the

tentative budget for Fiscal Year 2025-2026 is changed from aggregate rolled-back rate of

4.2806 mills, aggregate tentative adopted rate of 4.5129 mills, and percentage change of 5.43

percent increase, including voted millages, and the tentative rate represents a 1.66 percent

increase from the current Fiscal Year aggregate rate of 4.4390.

D.2. Public Comment: Re: Revised Tentatively Adopted County Operating and Capital

Budget for FY 2025-2026

Chairman Feltner called for a public hearing for comment for the revised tentatively adopted

County Operating and Capital Budget for FY 2025-2026.

Jim Liesenfelt, County Manager, stated this Item allows for the public to comment on the

revised tentative County budget for Fiscal Year (FY) 2025-2026; and before beginning public

comment he would ask for the Budget Office to read into the record the revised tentative

budget information.

Jill Hayes, Interim Assistant County Manager and Budget Office Director, stated the FY

2025-2026 tentative budget is $2,510,399,801; and this budget represents an increase of

$189,967,259 or 8.19 percent more than the FY 2024-2025 current budget of $2,320,432,542.

Mr. Liesenfelt advised the Board is now ready to accept public comments in the revised

tentative budget for FY 2025-2026.

Allie Goff stated she is the president of Space Coast United Soccer Club; on behalf of the

soccer club and the 9,000 members, she wants to voice the strong support for the proposed

$20 tax increase; they have spoken directly to their membership and they are 100 percent

behind this initiative; the reality is simple, recreational growth and facilities have not kept up

with the needs of the community; the seven acres at the north end of Viera Regional Park have

now been delayed for about 15 years; and if waiting another two to five years, it is continuing

the pattern of neglect, ignoring the growth and development of services and youth

programming. She mentioned it is not hypothetical, they are already feeling the consequences;

just this year, the soccer club has had to turn away 350 children just due to not having the

facilities and the space in the community; they did not have the fields, even moving it across

the other parks within Wickham and Dick Blake; at the same time the club has been forced to

fund and develop County improvements themselves because Parks and Recreation is

constantly trying to balance the budget that simply does not match the reality of the growing

population; as an organization that works with thousands of kids every week, they know

firsthand that sports are more than just games, they are the backbone of life lessons, team

work, and character development; when there is failure of investment in facilities, it is failing to

invest in the future of the children and the community; and that is why they stand firmly in

support of this tax increase. She mentioned it is not just about the soccer, football, or baseball

fields, it is about creating opportunities for all kids to play, grow, and thrive; she can say with

confidence as the president of the soccer club that the families are behind this project; and one

thing to note, she also has the support of the football club in attendance; she has three

children, all three in the soccer club and two in the football club; her husband is on the Board of

Directors of the football club, as she is on the soccer club; they are heavily involved in the

community and they work diligently to try to support each other, but at the same time, five

nights per week they have 200-plus kids on the football fields and there is double, maybe triple

that, on the Viera soccer fields; and they are there to show support and initiative to say they

need these seven acres.

Pam Avery stated she has lived in Brevard County most of her life; she has been a small

business owner for over 20 years; she believes in transparency, accountability, common sense

leadership, and above all, the truth; that is why the Board has the packet in front of each of

them, because everything she is about to say is factual and documented from months of

research; over the last several years, North Brevard has made real headway thanks to strong

leadership on this Board; one of the best examples of that was the creation of the North

Brevard Economic Development Zone (NBEDZ); and that program brought in $3.5 million per

year to District 1, supported small business, attracted companies tied to the space program

such as Blue Origin and SpaceX, and it helped developments like Titus Landing take root. She

continued by saying for once North Brevard was being recognized as up and coming with real

investment and momentum; before Commissioner Delaney even took office, she campaigned

to dismantle NBEDZ (Zone); she eventually voted to preserve it, but by then the damage was

done, North Brevard lost the Zone and the funding; her early comments claiming the Zone

benefited millionaires and billionaires were not only false they were reckless; throwing around

the word corruption does not make it true, but it does erode trust in the very programs designed

to help people; in the end there was over $56 million in economic development and growth lost,

that could have been there; Brevard needs leaders who do their homework before doing harm;

the community cannot afford to lose the progress now, not with poor financial judgment and

weak leadership that is being seen today; and her lack of understanding did not stop there, she

hit the ground running with a spending spree starting with her renovations at $92,000, and later

admitting that she had no idea it would be that expensive and was even discussing with her

staff the possibility of paying for someone else’s flooring. She went on to say she had an

independent licensed contractor create a very general estimate based on the material, testing,

and labor used and it came back close to the amount of facilities that had already been

provided; her point is simply, clearly, she nor her staff understand the difference between a

livingroom remodel and a public commercial project; another $21,000 was spent to return Tom

Statham Park to public use, totaling $113,000; of course, there was Speak Up Brevard, which

the County spent $50,000 to $100,000 on that in staff time and effort, with more workshops that

she wanted to follow; there were 67 people involved in that and there are 680,000 residents in

this community; and her ask tonight is for this Board to give clear direction to the County

Manager and County Attorney’s Office to investigate and document the District 1

Commissioner. She advised she will leave this with the Board.

Chairman Feltner advised he is back on D.2. and there is no vote required.

There being no comments or objections, the Board accepted public comments concerning the

tentatively approved budget and millage rates for the County’s 2025-2026 Fiscal Year,

including Charter Officers and Dependent Special Districts.

D.3. Adoption of FY 2025-2026 Tentative Millages

Chairman Feltner called for a public hearing for adoption of the FY 2025-2026 tentative

miilages.

Jim Liesenfelt, County Manager, stated this Item is recommending the Board of County

Commissioners discuss and tentatively adopt the Fiscal Year (FY) 2025-2026 millage rates; the

table that was included in this Agenda Report reflects a proposed millage rate approved by the

Board at the July meeting, which were included in the TRIM notices sent to the property

owners; the Board may recall that for several of the voter-approved taxing districts, the Board

approved rates beyond what was initially included in the FY 2025-2026 budget; in accordance

with Florida Statutes, the Florida Department of Revenue (FDOR) has prescribed forms and

instructions that calculate the maximum levies for counties and independent special districts;

Attachment A provides the FDOR prescribed requirements for simple majority, super majority,

and unanimous votes; the Board may tentatively adopt a millage rate higher than the simple

majority maximum rate at this first budget hearing with only a majority vote; however, the final

adoption of millage rates must follow the statutory approval threshold provided by FDOR. He

continued by saying the millage rates adopted by the Board will determine the amount of

revenue to be allocated by the Board within those respective taxing districts; and any changes

to the millage rates on this Item will need to be recomputed and announced under Item D.4.

Commissioner Delaney inquired if the Board is doing all of these at once or one at a time.

Jill Hayes, Interim Assistant County Manager, advised at the tentative hearing, the Board can

approve them all at once; and at the final budget hearing they will have to be approved one at a

time.

Commissioner Delaney asked if they could be done one at a time today.

Chairman Feltner asked what was the pleasure of the Board, one at a time or all at once.

Commissioner Adkinson commented she would prefer to do it all at once.

Commissioner Goodson stated he would too. He inquired if it is done all at once now, the Board

still has to do it again individually; and he asked if that was what Ms. Hayes just stated.

Ms. Hayes informed the Board that it can approve the tentative millages in one action here

tonight; and at the final hearing it will have to be done millage by millage and adopted one at a

time.

There being no further comments or objections, the Board discussed and tentatively adopted

the Fiscal Year 2025-2026 Millage Rates.

Result: APPROVED

Mover: Tom Goodson

Seconder: Kim Adkinson

Ayes: Goodson, Adkinson, Feltner, and Altman

Nay: Delaney

D.4. Announcement of the Recomputed FY 2025-2026 Aggregate Adopted Tentatively

Millage

Chairman Feltner called for a public hearing for announcement of the recomputed FY

2025-2026 aggregate adopted tentative millage.

Jim Liesenfelt, County Manager, stated based on the approved changes in millage rates that

were approved on Agenda Item D.3., he will now ask the Budget Office to read into the record

the revised aggregate millage rates.

Jill Hayes, Interim Assistant County Manager, stated the aggregate rolled back rate for the

Fiscal Year 2025-2026 budget is 4.2806; the aggregate tentative millage rate for the Fiscal

Year 2025-2026 budget is 4.5129; and this represents a 5.43 percent increase which is more

than the aggregate rolled back rate.

There being no comments or objections, the Board acknowledged the Budget Office reading

into the record the percentage by which the aggregate millage necessary to fund the tentative

budget for Fiscal Year 2025-2026 is changed from aggregate rolled-back rate of 4.2806 mills.

D.5. Adoption of Budgets for FY 2025-2026 for Certain Districts and Programs

Chairman Feltner called for public hearing on adoption of budgets for FY 2025-2026 for certain

districts and programs.

Jim Liesenfelt, County Manager, stated in accordance with the Brevard County Code of

Ordinances he would request adoption of the Fiscal Year (FY) 2025-2026 budgets for the

following agencies: Solid Waste Management, Stormwater Utility Department, Fire Services

Non-Advalorem Assessment, and Melbourne-Tillman Water Control District.

Chairman Feltner inquired if they can be voted for in one motion.

Jill Hayes, Interim Assistant County Manager, advised the Board can vote for them altogether.

There being no further comments or objections, the Board accepted the budgets of Solid

Waste Management Department, Stormwater Utility, and Fire Rescue Operations Assessment;

and adopted Resolution No. 25-095, adopting the final operating budget for Melbourne-Tillman

Water Control District for Fiscal Year 2025-2026.

Result: ADOPTED

Mover: Kim Adkinson

Seconder: Katie Delaney

Ayes: Delaney, Goodson, Adkinson, Feltner, and Altman

D.6. FY 2025-2026 Budget Resolution: Barefoot Bay Water and Sewer District

Chairman Feltner called for a public hearing on FY 2025-2026 Budget Resolution for Barefoot

Bay Water and Sewer District.

Jim Liesenfelt, County Manager, stated it is requested that the governing Board of Barefoot

Bay Water and Sewer District approve a resolution adopting a budget for Fiscal Year (FY)

2025-2026.

Commissioner Adkinson stated before the Board entertains a motion on this, she would like to

point out that Barefoot Bay is a separate Independent District with increasing rates to pay off

their bond debt; once that debt is paid off, they will be absorbed into the County; residents are

really concerned about their increasing rates; she has consulted with staff who has been

fantastic, to figure out how to get a solution which can provide some kind of relief to the

Barefoot Bay taxpayers; and she would like to make a separate motion to direct staff to have

the rate consultant update the rate study to see if the rate can be lowered to provide relief to

the Barefoot Bay ratepayers and to authorize the Utilities Department to consult with the bond

counsel, subject to County Attorney approval, to explore options regarding the outstanding

bond debt, and this motion will not impact any other Brevard County residents.

Chairman Feltner inquired if that is something that should be done tonight or at the next regular

meeting.

Morris Richardson, County Attorney, advised it is staff direction; it is an Item that the Board

could take up tonight; his understanding from talking with Utility Services Director, Edward

Fontanin, is it is kind of a back of the envelope calculation in that such a study might cost

approximately $30,000 or less and be completed in a few months; it would not affect the

Board’s consideration of Barefoot Bay Water and Sewer Dependent Special District budget for

tonight; what would probably result from it, if the study found that there could be a rate

modification, is that a rate resolution would come back at some point in the future; and at that

point it may require a budget amendment. He went on to say this is something, because it is in

the nature of staff direction, that the Board could take up tonight or decide to put it on the

Agenda for the next regular meeting.

Commissioner Delaney stated she is happy to be on board with Commissioner Adkinson on this

and to get this going as quickly as possible for her constituents.

There being no further comments or objections, the Board directed staff to have the consultant

update the Rate Study to see if it can lower the rate and provide relief to the Barefoot Bay rate

payers; and to authorize the Utility Services Department to consult with bond counsel, subject

to the County Attorney’s approval, to explore options regarding the outstanding bond debt, not

to impact any other Brevard County residents.

Result: APPROVED

Mover: Kim Adkinson

Seconder: Katie Delaney

Ayes: Delaney, Goodson, Adkinson, Feltner, and Altman

There being no further comments or objections, the Board adopted Resolution No. 25-001,

adopting a final operating budget for Fiscal Year 2025-2026 of the Barefoot Bay Water Utility

and Sewer District.

Result: ADOPTED

Mover: Kim Adkinson

Seconder: Thad Altman

Ayes: Delaney, Goodson, Adkinson, Feltner, and Altman

D.7. Tentative Approval of a Resolution Adopting the County’s Budget for FY

2025-2026

Chairman Feltner called for a public hearing on tentative approval of a resolution adopting the

County’s budget for FY 205-2026.

Jim Liesenfelt, County Manager, stated based on the action taken during this public hearing, he

would now ask for the Budget Office to read into the record the revised tentative budget for

Fiscal Year (FY) 2025-2026.

Jill Hayes, Interim Assistant County Manager, stated the revised tentative budget for FY

2025-2026 is $2,510,399,801 representing an increase of 8.19 percent or $189,967,259 over

the current budget of $2,320,432,542.

Mr. Liesenfelt stated he is now requesting tentative approval of a resolution adopting the FY

2025-2026 Brevard County Budget.

Commissioner Delaney stated she is hoping to have a bit of discussion around this; she is sure

the rest of the Board has done the same, she has spoken with staff about the budget at length

and she has some concerns; some of it has to do with County operations and one of the major

concerns is with the County’s capital, the equipment, vehicles, and all of those types of things;

she is not seeing how the County has a tracking system that is robust enough where it is

tracking what the County has, the condition of the vehicle or piece of equipment such as how

old something is or if it is worth fixing or replacing; in the budget book it is basically a wishlist

from all of the Departments; and for her it has been difficult because she is trying to figure out

what items are absolutely needed and what things could staff push a little more life out of, or

are these things truly necessary. She went on to say then there is the way that things are being

funded within the County and the accountability that it has to the constituents; one of the things

that has come up for her over the past couple of weeks and beyond is the reconstruction of

Satellite Boulevard; for those who may not know, Satellite Boulevard is a three-mile long dirt

road in her District that is heavily traveled and with heavy vehicles; unfortunately, sometimes

there are four-wheelers and things that tear up the road, but it is in the process of being

reconstructed; while she has been trying to get information out to the public and try to keep

them informed, as everyone knows a construction site is not going to be what the end result is,

but the fear is what happens in the meantime and are the best materials being used to rectify

the situation, because what was happening before was the washboard was so bad, so severe

that people’s vehicles were breaking, and people literally could not get in and out of their

homes without their vehicles breaking; she displayed a photo to the audience and the Board

showing a vehicle that had gotten stuck on this road the evening prior; she explained in the

picture everyone can see the ruts are so deep and part of it is because the material is so fresh

and new; the difficult part for her is that there are a lot of blue collar workers that live out there

and do this type of work that are frustrated and saying to her that this should not be happening

and if the County was using the correct materials this would not be happening; she asked for

invoices of the material being used and it says shell-shell and shell mix; she received a report

on the material and it says lime rock so she is wondering if it is lime rock shell mix or is it a shell

mixed with dirt; all of these things matter because people have to be able to access their

homes if the County is going to maintain their roads properly, and right now that is just not the

case; people are slipping and sliding into ditches, and it is quite the scene that is happening out

there; and people are extremely frustrated. She continued to say when talking about the

budget, she is frustrated because there are some really severe needs and she is wondering

how to know what the right thing is; she has her residents who do this work every day telling

her that this is the wrong material then staff telling her this is the best material out there and it

is going to be great; the County really does not have the funds to redo this if it is not the right

thing; another thing she wanted to mention is about salaries and the four percent across the

board; it is a bit troubling for her, especially at the County’s highest level; a four percent pay

raise for the County Manager and the County Attorney is over $11,000 and she thinks that is

quite a pay raise especially when the proposed contract shows the County Manager getting the

same salary as the prior County Manager and on top of that, receiving an $11,000 raise two

weeks later; it is really difficult for her to see all of this and then tell her residents that the

County needs more money from them; and she and Ms. Avery may disagree on what exactly

happened with her office, but agree that the price was too high. She stated this is not just her

office, these floors were put in at the entire Viera Complex even after all of the shade that it got

from being used in her office; she is frustrated that no one stopped to say this may not be the

right thing, and look at some other options; and she does not really know where to go from

there because she really feels like… She is frustrated because the County hastily stopped a

process of picking a new County Manager and she does not see willingness to even have

these conversations of the possibility of doing things in a different way and it is frustrating; it is

frustrating because the Board is going out there asking the residents for more money and she

cannot in good faith say that she knows where every single penny is going; she had reached

out to the Citizens Oversight Committee for the budget and requested some feedback on what

they had thought about the budget; two of them responded to her, one of them who is her

appointee, when she asked her to look into parks and Public Works because some of the

millages that are going up are possibly the parks, and one of the things found was a $20,000

commercial stove that is on the books for next Fiscal Year, but the stove has already been in

place for two months; there are many of these instances where the County has these items

already in place but they are budgeted for the next year; the money just does not track right;

she gets the mid-year supplements, the adjustments, and things like that, but she does not feel

like this is the right way to do business; if the vendors are not providing the things that have

been ordered in a timely manner then she feels like the County should be pushing them to give

them the things that were ordered or pick a different vendor; and she also thinks the County

should be paying its vendors in a timely manner as well because it builds good relationships.

She noted her frustration comes from her hoping that the Board would come together during

the budget workshops and really dive into this stuff together; she feels like the Board is

completely working in silos and she does not think that is the way the constructive government

works; she would have loved to dive into the books as a Board with County leadership to try to

hammer out some of these issues that she is finding; and she is wondering if any of the other

Board members are feeling this same way or have looked at it.

Commissioner Goodson asked Marc Bernath, Public Works Director, to respond to

Commissioner Delaney’s comments about Satellite Boulevard and if there were some

right-of-way issues on that road.

Mr. Bernath stated there are some right-of-way issues as the County does not own all of it; and

some of it is by maintenance.

Commissioner Goodson asked him to talk about shell and where the County buys shell for the

County roads.

Mr. Bernath commented it depends on whether or not the work is done; in this particular case

the closest pit is SNL and that is where all of the shell for Satellite Boulevard was purchased.

Commissioner Goodson inquired if it meets a certain Load Bearing Ratio (LBR).

Mr. Bernath responded affirmatively.

Commissioner Goodson inquired if that is a Department of Transportation (DOT) standard.

Mr. Bernath replied it is and there is a County Code that requires LBR for a minimum of 40;

when looking at the pit report, it shows that the LBR value right now is 113; they have also

contracted with a geotechnical firm; and once the road is actually done, staff will have the

geotechnical firm go out and confirm every 500 feet, that it meets the minimum 40 LBR, as well

as the density test requirements of 98 percent.

Commissioner Goodson commented at the rate staff is going, there is probably two feet of that

material on that road already.

Mr. Bernath advised there is about three or four inches in general of just silt and slough; the

bigger issue really has been the amount of rain that the area has had in the last week or two; it

is very hard to work the material so it has exacerbated some of the concerns that the

Commissioner has raised; and staff is working diligently.

Commissioner Goodson asked if Mr. Bernath can provide the cost; and he asked if the material

is being bought by the ton or by the yard.

Mr. Bernath advised he is buying it by the ton.

Commissioner Goodson noted he thinks there are two choices in Central Brevard; he could

have it trucked down from Ocala but the trucking would be astronomical; there is Rinker CMX

lime rock or the marley shell from SNL; the only other pit he is aware of is Charlie Reed; and he

asked if there is any place else that staff buys material that it put on that road.

Mr. Bernath explained it is possible, he is not into those levels of detail every day, but he has

mentioned the primary ones.

Commissioner Goodson noted that rain affects all of them; it affects lime rock; if lime rock were

to be put down and if there is enough rain, it is going to turn to mush too; but the right-of-way is

an issue, and the drainage on the swells is an issue; and he asked if that is correct.

Mr. Bernath confirmed it is correct. He stated since it was not originally a County road, it was

never designed to any standard; staff is rehabilitating the road, it is not constructing some new

road; and it will never be to an expectation of paved.

Commissioner Goodson asked with that being said, is he talking about the next three years,

depending on money, or the next five years, what is he looking at in longevity.

Mr. Bernath advised right now they are doing one and one-half miles in the current budget, out

of the three miles; it is projected anywhere between three and five years before having to

rehabilitate it again; the challenge with this road, as Commissioner Delaney has very astutely

pointed out, it is used by folks that use it as a pass through to go from State Road 520 to

Cherven, there is off-roading, and there are wheelies; he and the Commissioner have been out

there and it happened right in front of them; and that is a challenge that is hard to address.

Commissioner Goodson asked if there were any other comments about that road.

Mr. Bernath mentioned staff is working diligently; they had suspended operations today

because of the amount of rain that was going on in that area; it has affected some of the

drivability; he has not seen where people were in ditches, but he is not saying that has not

occurred but he was not aware of it; assuming there is dryer weather tomorrow morning, they

are bringing in another grader and operator to help work on that road as well as surrounding

roads to get a handle on it; and they are expecting the weather to break in the next day or two.

He went on to say staff is hoping that once there is drier weather these issues will find their way

in the rearview mirror; once shell is graded and compacted it will serve as a hard base until

people drive and do donuts and whatnot; and they just have not gotten to that point because of

the amount of rain they have had.

Commissioner Goodson stated he thinks he knows but he will ask the question; Osceola

County uses recycled asphalt off the roads, what is milled off the roads, to build roads; and he

asked if Mr. Bernath knows what he is talking about.

Mr. Bernath advised he does know.

Commissioner Goodson stated it seems to, he has gone over, checked it, looked at it, and took

the time from point A to point B, and it seemed to hold up good; and he asked if the County

sells its millings back to the contractors that make asphalt.

Mr. Bernath noted that it does and it actually gets the best rate in Central Florida when looking

at the bid, the VA is low because it sells all its asphalt back to them; and this price is

substantially lower than Osceola County.

Commissioner Goodson asked if this is something that the County might want to consider

putting on a road three or four inches deep.

Mr. Bernath advised it has been looked at in the past; there are concerns from an

environmental factor; certainly, the Code would have to be updated because it is not something

that is currently allowed by Code; staff has a number of concerns with it; he knows the

Commissioner, he, and some staff have talked about that specific issue in the past; but he is

happy to look into it further.

Commissioner Goodson asked Mr. Bernath to tell the Board what his environmental concerns

would be by using that because asphalt is everywhere.

Mr. Bernath stated he is not fully prepared right now to fully articulate those concerns, but he

does know that when it is in a crushed condition it is subject to leech more; the County certainly

has sensitive water bodies throughout the County where dirt roads are located, and there are

dust concerns; there are probably others that he is not thinking about at the moment; but staff

can certainly review it and get back to the Commissioner.

Commissioner Goodson called forth Kathy Wall, Central Services Director; and he asked her if

there is a list of vendors and asking for a price on toilet paper to deliver it to the warehouse,

and the first vendor who is out of Orlando, says it is low, but the County calls him up and says it

needs 300 cases on Monday, but he says he cannot do because he is out or is shipping it to

Orange County, what does her office do next.

Ms. Wall advised a number of the County’s vendors are primary and secondary, so if the

primary cannot support the request of the County, it goes to the secondary vendor.

Commissioner Goodson inquired which could be a penny higher per roll.

Ms. Wall responded affirmatively.

Commissioner Goodson asked to fight that in any way to make it so transparent, to make it so

cheap, there are two choices, to do without the toilet paper or pay a penny more, correct.

Ms. Wall responded in the affirmative.

Commissioner Goodson commented he is going to vote to do without toilet paper to save

money; and he asked if there is anything else Ms. Wall can tell him on how her Department

judges vendors that he is unaware of.

Ms. Wall noted Commissioner Goodson is talking about bids, which bids are determined to be

appropriate by the qualifications, the responsiveness, and responsible bidder with the lowest

price; and the County goes through a number of criteria to determine which vendor it puts as

primary and secondary, it does not just pick one vendor because of a low price because it

might not get the quality or the responsiveness that is being discussed.

Commissioner Goodson asked when someone from the County calls the guy up and asks if he

can come install sidewalk or come do asphalt and finds out that it is five feet of sidewalk or 10

tons of asphalt, what is the usual response that staff receives.

Ms. Wall replied it depends on where he is from and how much business…

Commissioner Goodson interjected by saying he is talking about if he is out of the County.

Ms. Wall continued by saying when the County bids anything, it advertises and it advertises on

a national basis on Vendor Link; the County advertises all over for the products that it gets; and

normally the most responsive bidder is the one who gets the job.

Commissioner Goodson inquired normally, if the contractor shows up for anything and finds out

it is only a limited amount does he say he cannot come to Brevard County for that amount of

money.

Ms. Wall advised typically what they do is provide the specs before they come out, stating what

the County is asking for and see what the response is from that vendor; and if they do not

receive a response from that vendor, then staff moves on to the next.

Mr. Bernath asked if he could add to that, because at that point Ms. Wall’s group is not in it, it is

primarily Public Works; to Commissioner Goodson’s point, staff goes to those on that bid and

often get that; someone is not coming from Osceola, Orange, or wherever they are from so

they often have to go to the next contractor; a lot of times that might be higher; and it may be

based on the timing, so there are a lot of variables, but staff looks at price first and then other

factors.

Commissioner Goodson commented one either gets to wait months before somebody is in that

neighborhood doing something that will pick up the County’s portion of work that might be

miniscule; and he asked if that is correct.

Mr. Bernath responded affirmatively. He advised he can respond to a couple of things as he

has received some texts; there was a question about price, it is $8.70 per ton for shell mix; as

far as the concerns with the recycled asphalt, there is pulverized material finds, binds are old,

starts to breakdown, and that is what leeches; there have also been horrible complaints in the

past as well as from cities like Palm Bay that actually do allow it; once people are doing donuts

or whatnot, it tears up the millings causing real problems; it is not a panacea and certainly not a

solution; and those are just some things that some of his staff have commented to.

Commissioner Goodson stated he would have to totally disagree with him and his staff because

if they went to Osceola County and looked at what is put down on Kempher Road as fill down

to that pit that they operate out of there, with 100 80,000 pound trucks a day running out of

there; it is a straight road so he agrees with that, and Canaveral Groves Boulevard is a straight

road; of course, once put down, it gets primed again with a liquid asphalt that is emulsified safe

asphalt, environmentally safe; he totally disagrees with Mr. Bernath and does not think he has

seen the application in Osceola; but that is strictly him, he could care less.

Mr. Bernath stated staff has been to Osceola multiple times to look at what they are doing and

would be happy to look at this issue again.

Commissioner Goodson stated of course, if he has it in his mind that it is not feasible, he totally

understands, but still disagrees with it; he noted to do not let it worry him; the other issue he

has not quoted is lime rock; he would imagine lime rock being $32 per ton because of the rail to

go to the City Point; lime rock would be totally expensive; and he does not know if staff is going

to process soil on cement on Canaveral Groves or buy a pug mix…

Commissioner Delaney interjected by saying it is Satellite Boulevard.

Commissioner Goodson corrected himself by saying Satellite Boulevard not Canaveral; and he

asked if Mr. Bernath has thought about those issues.

Mr. Bernath stated for Satellite Boulevard, it is an unpaved road and the plan is to just stabilize

it with crushed shell.

Commissioner Goodson stated he has got it.

Mr. Bernath continued on to say he will look into it further but he is being told that the example

he has being listed is different than what he is talking about; he does not know enough about it;

but he can look into it further.

Commissioner Goodson advised he does not either and thanked Mr. Bernath for taking his

questions.

Commissioner Delaney asked for clarification about what material is being put on Satellite

Boulevard.

Mr. Bernath noted it is stabilized shell as the invoices show; he thinks what some of the

residents…

Commissioner Delaney stated she was asked specifically what material it was, is it crushed

shell that is fossilized sea shell fragments or this was lime rock that staff had sent her with the

LBR value of 113.

Mr. Bernath asked where Commissioner Delaney sees lime rock other than lime rock bearing

ratio.

Commissioner Delaney stated the chart that staff sent to her stated this is a report on lime rock

bearing ratio.

Mr. Bernath explained it is a report on the shell, lime rock bearing ratio does not mean it is lime

rock, LBR is a Florida specific laboratory test that measures the strength and relative load

bearing capacity of lime rock base subgrade materials and other things.

Commissioner Delaney pointed out the invoices that she was sent say shell mix and

underneath it says shell shell; that is confusing; and she asked if it is shell mix, if so what is the

mix, and if it is straight shell then she would like confirmation on that.

Mr. Bernath advised after Commissioner Delaney’s inquiries this is what was received back

from the pit, but as Commissioner Goodson had pointed out, there are only so many pits that

provide this throughout the County; and staff can certainly go back and ask the question that

she is asking.

Commissioner Delaney stated when she had spoken to Mr. Bernath and Susan Jackson it was

said that the engineers had done all sorts of testing and this specific material was the material

that was needed on this road; and that is why she is trying to pinpoint what is the material.

Mr. Bernath stated it was looked at early on whether or not they needed to put down some sort

of design mix; working with the geotech firm that looked at it, it was decided that shell was

needed; shell is what is being put down; if there is anything in it from the pit, that is something

he would have to confirm with them; but as to the LBR value, it shows this well exceeds the

bearing capacity needed to do the job correctly; the geotechnical consultant will be coming

back out once the material dries after it is graded and rolled; and that is when the material will

strengthen up because it dries up and hardens.

Commissioner Delaney stated she is just concerned because the dates on this is from

December 18, 2024; and she asked if this is the same.

Mr. Bernath noted that is the latest; he believes they have to do a yearly test for Florida

Department of Transportation (FDOT) to be a State certified pit; that is the latest that they

would have, they are not required to test every time they go in there; they know what their pit is

based on; they validate it each year; FDOT has the State certification office; and the County

does not have that apparatus, therefore, it relies on them to certify through the State.

Commissioner Goodson stated if one knows anything about shell, stabilized shell, and shell

shell on top of shell shell, there are wide terms used in construction; and if one knows anything

about SNL they make what is called a pug mix; it is a concrete blend of marley shell with a

certain percentage of concrete; they ship it and it is put on a road, usually six inches or more in

thickness; Orange County loves it and uses it all the time; and he asked if Mr. Bernath is aware

of that. He continued by saying what is out there that they are selling for stabilizing material

called moral stabilizer, moral shell, is the overburden they throw up on the bank with the

backhoe and then sell it when one stabilizes a road, just like Public Works is doing; one brings

it in and spreads it four inches thick and mix it eight inches deep, then roll it and grade it, it is

called a stabilized subbase; then if one goes any further, he or she puts lime rock on it or some

sort of a base material out of Ocala or Miami, then prime it and place asphalt on it; and that is

the extent of his conversation about this, he is all over it.

Commissioner Delaney asked what the process is that staff has done on that road.

Commissioner Goodson stated it is at the stabilized sub.

Commissioner Delaney commented with all due respect, she is asking staff how exactly it has

been placed on the road and what have been the steps to stabilize the road because right now

this picture does not show stabilized.

Mr. Bernath reiterated the area has been inundated with rain; as Commissioner Goodson was

just eluding to, first, it pushes off the fines; the fines that are there are three to four inches;

those are going to be used to help box out the road as well as create wind rows; staff then puts

in stabilized shell which has all come from the SNL pit; there have been some questions or

concerns about why it is coming from Tucker or the other pit and that is because the budget

process for them starts in the February, March time frame; in April, Public Works is projecting

where it is going to be with a project; as the Board knows they had a public meeting on this and

it was believed at that time that staff would start in June and in good faith finish it; and because

Public Works wanted to ensure that it spent the funds, they had decided to buy the materials

and store them, otherwise, they would just have them come directly from SNL. He continued by

saying the alternative is waiting for a mid-year supplement or coming to the Board to say they

were not able to spend it; that is cumbersome at best; that is why people are saying it is being

taken from the County’s own pit, it is not; it is being pre-staged there; they are transporting it,

dropping it on the road, grading it out, rolling and compacting it, and normally if there was not

the inundation of water, that would dry out and harden; that has not occurred because of the

amount of rain that has been really intense this past week; and staff was hoping to get ahead

of that with a little bit drier weather that is coming the next couple of days, they will be

spreading it out, rolling, compacting, and seeing it harden up.

Commissioner Delaney asked Commissioner Goodson if she could ask him a question since he

knows a good bit about this subject.

Commissioner Goodson replied sure.

Commissioner Delaney inquired if she heard him correctly that he was saying that when they

receive the material it is graded into the road, it chops it up and mixes it as it is being laid.

Commissioner Goodson explained it would depend on the thickness; if they are putting three to

four inches, usually in construction to do a stabilized road, one blends it with a mixer like

making a mud pie; and he asked if he could ask Mr. Bernath a question to answer

Commissioner Delaney’s question. He asked if Mr. Bernath was planning on putting a full depth

of six or eight inches or mixing it.

Mr. Bernath advised in this particular case, they know that once getting past that three or four

inches of slough, it is an extremely hard subbase; they are also not paving the road as

Commissioner Goodson had laid out; what was determined was that if they went in there and

mixed it with the existing road, all they would be doing is making fines out of that; what they had

decided was to preserve the integrity of that subbase, not only just to put three to four inches

back, because this is a road that was never designed, so it fluctuates some, and in some

places it is upwards of a foot of stabilized shell being put on there and being graded,

compacted, and rolled.

Commissioner Goodson commented that is even better.

Commissioner Delaney stated she is stuck between two things, the community saying it cannot

drive down this road or even get out of their house and staff saying it is doing everything it can;

and she is trying to figure out if there is some kind of middle ground that staff can be doing

more than what it has been doing to make this situation get even a little better.

Mr. Bernath commented first he would say that obviously he has empathy for the residents and

the concerns that have been brought up; staff has been very attentive to the situation; they

have put out their construction supervisor, maintenance supervisor, and he has not been out

there personally, but he has been looking at it and seeing everything that can be done;

honestly, whether they were out there doing construction this week or not, there would be the

same or similar issues because of the amount of rain and the amount of traffic that road gets;

the only thing at this point that he could offer is, and it will be a sacrifice, but to cut off one of

the exits and that would mean that the local traffic has to drive around, but it would stop the

thoroughfare issue of people trying to go from Cherven to SR 520; even though they have

closed to local traffic only, his team has witnessed people still driving there, and people working

there noticing five and six trips in an hour, so it is not just being used for local traffic; and they

are not law enforcement, but they could shut one of the roads down and create some hardship,

but it will help this situation.

Commissioner Delaney stated she wonders if there was any thought to what she mentioned

about the way the Board goes through this process.

There being no further comments or objections, the Board executed and adopted Resolution

No. 25-096, adopting a tentative Budget for FY 2025-2026, consisting of a total revised budget

for FY 2025-2026 as $2,510,399,801 which includes County agencies of $2,149,058,282,

Charter Offices of $244,120,146, and Dependent Special Districts of $117,221,373.

Result: ADOPTED

Mover: Tom Goodson

Seconder: Kim Adkinson

Ayes: Goodson, Adkinson, Feltner, and Altman

Nay: Delaney

E.3. Katie Delaney, Commissioner District 1

Commissioner Delaney stated first she wanted to say some things to the Satellite Boulevard

community who is watching this meeting right now; she is not sure that it was made clear, but it

sounds like the County is bringing out another grader and will get working on some of those

side roads that had been mentioned; and they heard the conversation about the materials that

were being placed on the roads so she is sure there will be some communication about that.

She stated she knows the Board has not had a chance to talk about this, but it is coming up for

a vote next week; she just has to share some of her frustrations with the County Manager’s

contract; some of the things she had spoken about publicly and contacted the County Attorney

about was requiring annual evaluations and doing a fixed term; neither of those things were put

into the contract; she has concerns that the Board is just going with the previous County

Manager’s salary; the previous County Manager was County Manager for eight years and that

is a lot of experience, and now it has a County Manager with six months experience, who is

going to be making the exact same amount of money; that does not sit right with her; because

the contract is effective on September 15, that means he would be eligible for the four percent

Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA) raise, which would be another $11,000; that would be, from

his current salary as Assistant County Manager to now, $100,000 raise overnight for a position

he did not have to apply to, did not have to go through the rigor of a process; when he was

Assistant County Manager he was only over six County Departments, Housing and Human

Services, Parks and Recreation, Transit Services, Library Services, Tourism, and UF/IFAS

Extension; that is a lot of departments that are not counted as him having experience over; she

is by no means saying that he should not get a different salary for more responsibility; but for

the Board to give a premium salary for someone with much less experience, she does not know

how this Board is doing that and then telling the taxpayers it needs to raise the millage. She

went on to say years ago, the same type of thing happened with the County Attorney and the

previous County Manager; in 2022, the salary jumped $52,000 and then another $13,000

shortly thereafter because of the COLA raise; the County Attorney’s salary was pretty similar;

one of the things that is talked about a lot out in the public is how much these positions make

and people are very uncomfortable with it; she has never had a constituent say to her that they

really want the County Attorney and County Manager get an $11,000 raise; she feels the Board

really needs to look at this; and she is frustrated that the Board was cut out of the process, not

only with going through the process of getting a new County Manager, but then stonewalled

again with being cut out of the process of negotiating this contract. She inquired what happens

when Mr. Liesenfelt retires at some point because he is in Deferred Retirement Option Plan

(DROP) and the Board needs to find a new County Manager, and if he gets an $11,000 raise

every year because it is four percent, that just gets higher and higher, is the Board going to hire

a new County Manager at over $300,000 a year; she stated at some point the Board has to put

these positions back in check; this makes her extremely uncomfortable; another thing that

makes her uncomfortable about the contract is the car allowance; there is no dollar amount

specified, only 65 percent of a new vehicle; it does not say what the price of the new vehicle is,

is it a Maserati or a Toyota; then it says dues and subscriptions with no dollar amount

associated with that one as well; she wanted to share that and she wanted to give this

information out to provide a clear picture of what the Board is looking at; and she wanted to

state her frustration and that she is very uncomfortable with it.

E.4 Tom Goodson, Commissioner District 2, Vice-Chair

Commissioner Goodson stated he is thankful for two things, the University of South Florida and

Florida State. He commented he would like to comment on this comment, other than

Commissioner Altman, the first day he took office he did not know anything about a County

Commissioner but he was paid $60,000 the first day; he almost got a raise if people remember

the vote; people are only as good as they are; if they are in the market working, and if he or

she is good, he or she is going to get paid to be good; and that is part of life.

E.6. Thad Altman, Commissioner District 5

Commissioner Altman stated he wants to respond to a couple of things related to the County

Manager with the respect of providing Commissioner Delaney an answer to her concerns; he,

having worked as an executive, is not a fan of the annual review process; he is not alone in

that; he thinks many feel that the annual review of executives are problematic because they

provide outdated, one-size-fits-all feedback and it does not suit diverse workforces which can

result in delayed and unstable information; and they are costly in terms of time and resources.

He continued by saying most of all what he does not like about them is they can create

employee anxiety and demotivating competition, it fails to recognize exceptional contributions,

and are susceptible to greater biases; he wants Commissioner Delaney to know he did not

support it for a reason because he agrees with that frame of thought; in today’s modern world,

this model is being replaced by a more effective, continuous feedback and human-centered

performance and management approaches that foster trust, transparency, and ongoing growth;

he really likes the contract and he feels the process the County has works; he likes the

continuous feedback; as far as the salary, he was just thankful that the new administrator was

willing to work for the price that he was willing to work for; he is relieved, comfortable, and he

respects Commissioner Delaney’s position; but he wanted her to know how he felt and why.

E.7. Rob Feltner, Commissioner District 4, Chairman

Chairman Feltner noted he hates to end on a sorrowful note, but he does not think the Board

should leave there without recognizing that Charlie Kirk was shot and killed today; he cannot

believe that political discourse has gotten that bad; it is a horrible thing; he will say on behalf of

the Board and the County, it is thinking of his wife and family; and he asked for a moment of

silence for Charlie Kirk.

Adjourn

Upon consensus of the Board, the meeting adjourned at 6:43 p.m.

ATTEST:

_________________________

RACHEL M. SADOFF, CLERK

_________________________________

ROB FELTNER, CHAIRMAN

BREVARD COUNTY COMMISSIONERS